From: amd001@its.maynick.com.au (Andrew Dunstan)
Subject: Re: Any research putting c above ada?
Date: 1997/05/06
Date: 1997-05-06T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <336eda35.0@news2.maynick.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 5k3fma$126a@newssvr01-int.news.prodigy.com
Matthew Givens (NKSW39B@prodigy.com) wrote:
: amd001@its.maynick.com.au (Andrew Dunstan) wrote:
: >
: >
: >This is a worrying statement. If you are a skilled programmer, you
: >would pick up languages like a sponge and not be worried about small
: >things like syntax. If you think you are highly proficient in C but
: >only moderately skilled in Ada, either you have not done enough Ada or
: >you are not thinking about things at an appropriate level ... most of
: >your thought should be at a language independent level.
: You don't really think that, do you? Of all the programmers I know, none
: of them are equally skilled/comfortable in all the languages they know,
: amount of experience with each taken into consideration. Again, that's
: because one (or more) is naturally easier for them to handle. Can I
: program in Ada? Yes, but not with the same ease that I can in C.
Umm ... well ... yes, I do think that. All the good programmers I know
are competent in a substantial number of languages, and the language
they happen to be writing in makes little difference to the ease with
which they write code because they think about problems in a largely
language-independent way.
My sister used to teach English as a Second Language: she had a great
bumper sticker on her car that read: Monolinguism Is Curable. We ought
to adopt it as a motto in the computing world :-) I've programmed in
many laguages (gave up counting some years ago, the count was
somewhere in the 20s I think) and loved them all (well, nearly all, I
hated Basix and DCL).
On the other hand, there is a lot to be said for a language that helps
you to avoid some (a lot?) of the mistakes that pretty well all
programmers make. The commonest errors (by far) that I have seen in
years of debugging other people's code (and some of my own) have been
pointer mismanagement and off-by-one errors in array processing. Ada
really does shine in helping you avoid these (as well as having many
other good points).
: >
: >If you work on a large software project, this is a recipe for
: >disaster. You can't just let programmers "do the thing that fits them
: >temperamentally". There must be standards etc. After all, the major
: >cost in most large s/w projects is not in initial coding but in
: >maintenance. This is where Ada shines - it is aimed at being easily
: >maintainable, easier on the reader at the cost of a little more trouble
: >to the writer. That's why many proigrammers hate it, of course, but is
: >the very reason that many more managers should love it.
: I never said anything about ignoring standards. In fact, I always
: program to a set of standards, some of them industry and some of them
: mine. But what does that have to do with the fact that many programmers
: work better in one language than another?
Well, one of the standards on a project of any size is surely going
to be the language(s) used. This should NOT be decided on the basis of
programmer preference, IMHO. And what you state as a "fact" is a
highly debatable matter.
cheers
andrew
--
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~1997-05-06 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 295+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1997-04-09 0:00 Any research putting c above ada? Konstantin B. Goldin
1997-04-10 0:00 ` Richard Krehbiel
1997-04-10 0:00 ` Tom Wheeley
1997-04-11 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
1997-04-16 0:00 ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-17 0:00 ` Stephen Leake
1997-04-10 0:00 ` Philip Brashear
1997-04-10 0:00 ` CubanPete
1997-04-11 0:00 ` John Thomas Apa
1997-04-10 0:00 ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-04-11 0:00 ` Gary W Smith
1997-04-11 0:00 ` James Youngman
1997-04-11 0:00 ` Steve Summit
1997-04-12 0:00 ` Dave Wood
1997-04-14 0:00 ` Chris Lomont
1997-04-16 0:00 ` Dave Wood
1997-04-11 0:00 ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-04-11 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-12 0:00 ` Tom Wheeley
[not found] ` <01bc46be$fb54cae0$3f6700cf@default>
1997-04-13 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-14 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-04-14 0:00 ` Roy Grimm
[not found] ` <33526cbf.41c6@cca.rockwell.com>
[not found] ` <5iusvd$118e@newssvr01-int.news.prodigy.com>
1997-04-14 0:00 ` James S. Rogers
[not found] ` <33530e22.5940@worldnet.att.net>
1997-04-16 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-18 0:00 ` Kenneth Almquist
1997-04-20 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-22 0:00 ` Alan Brain
[not found] ` <335d880c.324@dynamite.com.au>
1997-05-04 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-05 0:00 ` Alan Brain
[not found] ` <336ea9ca.3c92@dynamite.com.au>
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-06 0:00 ` Tom Moran
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
[not found] ` <5aedd9b0882ea1bf.69856d7f77cd2ae3.229bf1374681c88b@library-proxy.airnews.net>
1997-05-10 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-10 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-05-11 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-16 0:00 ` brad.balfour
1997-05-14 0:00 ` T Wheeley
1997-04-19 0:00 ` Tom Wheeley
[not found] ` <3353a187.1062@bix.com>
1997-04-16 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-17 0:00 ` Tom Moran
[not found] ` <33545F8D.2AF4@worldnet.att.net>
[not found] ` <335569F1.55A0@pratique.fr>
1997-04-20 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
[not found] ` <33541be1.14961570@news.airmail.net>
1997-04-16 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-16 0:00 ` Dale Stanbrough
[not found] ` <5j0e5i$qgi@bcrkh13.bnr.ca>
1997-04-16 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
[not found] ` <5j4ijn$3ta1@news.knox.edu>
1997-04-17 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-18 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
[not found] ` <33552C53.41C6@cca.rockwell.com>
1997-04-20 0:00 ` Steve Doiel
1997-04-20 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-04-21 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-11 0:00 ` Terry Colligan
1997-04-11 0:00 ` Larry J. Elmore
1997-04-12 0:00 ` Terry Colligan
[not found] ` <3359e813.340466234@news.pacificnet.net>
1997-04-11 0:00 ` James S. Rogers
1997-04-12 0:00 ` Steve Summit
1997-04-12 0:00 ` Danette & Murray Root
1997-04-12 0:00 ` David Weller
1997-04-12 0:00 ` Dave Wood
1997-04-13 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
[not found] ` <3373409f.494266577@news.pacificnet.net>
1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Wood
[not found] ` <E8pxJ0.I3s@thomsoft.com>
[not found] ` <3355E0F2.56E5@aonix.com>
1997-04-18 0:00 ` David Hanley
1997-04-20 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-14 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-04-14 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-15 0:00 ` Robert S. White
[not found] ` <5ivtcu$puv@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-16 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-16 0:00 ` Byron
1997-04-16 0:00 ` John Winters
[not found] ` <5j31dt$o3j@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-17 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-18 0:00 ` David Thornley
[not found] ` <338a1835.439086993@news.pacificnet.net>
1997-04-25 0:00 ` Alan Bowler
[not found] ` <01bc4da9$75237100$f4f582c1@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>
1997-04-21 0:00 ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-21 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-14 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-14 0:00 ` Stephen Leake
1997-04-13 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-27 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1997-04-29 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Roy Grimm
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-05-02 0:00 ` Samuel A. Mize
1997-05-05 0:00 ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-06 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-08 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-05-08 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-09 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-05-08 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-09 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-11 0:00 ` deafen
1997-05-12 0:00 ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-12 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-01 0:00 ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-01 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-02 0:00 ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-02 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-05 0:00 ` Steve Furlong
1997-05-06 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-05-06 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-06 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-08 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-05-14 0:00 ` T Wheeley
1997-05-14 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-01 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-05-10 0:00 ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-11 0:00 ` Wilbur Streett
1997-05-12 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-20 0:00 ` T Wheeley
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-05-01 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-05 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-05-06 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-01 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-01 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-03 0:00 ` Student responsability (Was: Any research putting c above ada?) Laurent Gasser
1997-05-03 0:00 ` John Bode
1997-05-05 0:00 ` Steven Huang
1997-05-05 0:00 ` Any research putting c above ada? John Apa
1997-05-06 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-06 0:00 ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-08 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-08 0:00 ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-08 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-09 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-10 0:00 ` Dan Shea
1997-05-11 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-07 0:00 ` John Apa
1997-05-08 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-10 0:00 ` John Apa
1997-05-11 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-14 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-05-08 0:00 ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-08 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Adam Beneschan
1997-05-09 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-05-09 0:00 ` Larry Weiss
1997-05-11 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-11 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1997-05-12 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-12 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-14 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-12 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-12 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-13 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-13 0:00 ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-05-14 0:00 ` Mathew Hendry
[not found] ` <F4243E31257E3230.1400B453F19F7D1B.A88AC4B6A31D <5l8gf8$2jp@mtinsc05.worldnet.att.net>
1997-05-13 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-13 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-05-14 0:00 ` T Wheeley
1997-05-15 0:00 ` Ray Blaak
1997-05-16 0:00 ` Alan Brain
[not found] ` <5lb2mi$3i2@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>
1997-05-14 0:00 ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-05-14 0:00 ` Szu-Wen Huang
1997-05-15 0:00 ` Jonathan Guthrie
[not found] ` <EA8sny.HKJ@thinkage.on.ca>
1997-05-16 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-14 0:00 ` M. Prasad
[not found] ` <rayEA5A7D.932@netcom.com>
1997-05-14 0:00 ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-05-14 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-17 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-01 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-02 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-03 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-03 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-03 0:00 ` Robert S. White
[not found] ` <33508283.56dd@aonix.com>
[not found] ` <33526280.62b3@gsfc.nasa.gov>
[not found] ` <5ivths$pv2@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-16 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
[not found] ` <m2ragbrmij.fsf@acm.org>
1997-04-20 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-14 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-04-17 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-10 0:00 ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-10 0:00 ` Thomas Aho
1997-04-10 0:00 ` Bob Stout
1997-04-10 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-04-14 0:00 ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-04-14 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-15 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-20 0:00 ` Alan Brain
[not found] ` <335ae79e.55ed@dynamite.com.au>
1997-04-20 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-28 0:00 ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-04-29 0:00 ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-06 0:00 ` Andrew Dunstan [this message]
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Jeff Carter
1997-05-07 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-08 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-09 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-09 0:00 ` John G. Volan
1997-05-11 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-12 0:00 ` John G. Volan
1997-05-12 0:00 ` John G. Volan
1997-05-13 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-05-14 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-16 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-05-17 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-17 0:00 ` John G. Volan
1997-05-18 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-18 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-19 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-19 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-19 0:00 ` John G. Volan
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Jeff Carter
1997-05-21 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-05-21 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-21 0:00 ` STL in Ada95 [was: Any research putting c above ada?] John G. Volan
1997-05-22 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Iterator Syntax [was: Re: STL in Ada95] Jeff Carter
1997-05-23 0:00 ` John G. Volan
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Michel Gauthier
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-22 0:00 ` STL in Ada95 [was: Any research putting c above ada?] Brian Rogoff
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-24 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-17 0:00 ` Any research putting c above ada? Dale Stanbrough
1997-05-12 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Adam Beneschan
1997-05-02 0:00 ` Daniel P Hudson
[not found] ` <5j078b$b25$1@NNTP.MsState.Edu>
1997-04-16 0:00 ` Peter Amey
[not found] ` <5j31lj$qnk@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-24 0:00 ` Suzette Norby
1997-04-25 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-26 0:00 ` Mike Haertel
1997-04-26 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-27 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-28 0:00 ` Istvan.Simon
1997-04-26 0:00 ` Larry Wissig
1997-04-26 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-26 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-26 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-04-27 0:00 ` b-see
1997-04-28 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-27 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk
1997-04-25 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-04-28 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-29 0:00 ` Andrew Koenig
1997-04-29 0:00 ` Tom Moran
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-01 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-01 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-30 0:00 ` Pat Rogers
1997-05-02 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-01 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-17 0:00 ` Daniel P Hudson
[not found] ` <335458A4.4C1D@worldnet.att.net>
[not found] ` <5j416b$hau@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>
1997-04-18 0:00 ` Mark & Zurima McKinney
1997-04-19 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-04-21 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
[not found] ` <5j30oa$ia9@bcrkh13.bnr.ca>
[not found] ` <3355739E.7B24@pratique.fr>
1997-04-18 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-23 0:00 ` David Emery
1997-04-17 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-17 0:00 ` Chris Morgan
1997-04-17 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-18 0:00 ` David Emery
1997-04-21 0:00 ` Jim Hyslop
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-04-10 0:00 tmoran
1997-04-11 0:00 ` Richard Krehbiel
1997-04-17 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-05-03 0:00 tmoran
1997-05-03 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-15 0:00 Jon S Anthony
1997-05-15 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-15 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
[not found] ` <01bc6189$b074f500$LocalHost@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>
1997-05-16 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-16 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-18 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-05-19 0:00 ` Michael Norrish
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Michael Norrish
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-21 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-21 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Les Hazlewood
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-21 0:00 ` Stephan Wilms
1997-05-21 0:00 ` Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-16 0:00 ` T Wheeley
1997-05-16 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-16 0:00 Jon S Anthony
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