* M$ to STRIKE again... @ 1997-04-06 0:00 essoft [not found] ` <3348FC2E.A8B@csolve.net> ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: essoft @ 1997-04-06 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) A recent remark by ex-MS developer Mr.Oglesby about MS' touching concern for our excessive lingering with the software we spent billions purchasing, and many more billions learning, struck a sinister resonance with this little item I might have missed otherwise...maybe the time has come that we start NOTICING in a big way!! "Bay Area Computer Currents", March 18-31, 1997, page 13 Apparently, Microsoft has decided that it is time for you to burn your bridges. Unlike previous versions of Windows 95, Windows 95 OEM Systems Release 2 (OSR2) does not allow dual-booting between it and Windows 3.x. -- Dr.B.Voh Eclipse Software http://www.netcom.com/~essoft ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
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* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... [not found] ` <3348FC2E.A8B@csolve.net> @ 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Catherine Rees Lay 1997-04-07 0:00 ` James Giles 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Catherine Rees Lay @ 1997-04-07 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3348FC2E.A8B@csolve.net>, Mike Monett <add@csolve.net> writes >We erased WIN95 a year ago and moved everything back to DOS. For each >function we now do in DOS, we gain at least 10X improvement in throughput >and productivity. This is the promise that MicroSoft has been making all >along, but you have to know how to apply the appropriate filter. > >There is a wealth of DOS available on the web for anyone who cares to >look. In fact, there is a lot of innovative and useful stuff for DOS that >is simply not available in Windows. > >If you subscribe to the SimTel mailing list, it is astonishing how much >programming effort goes into "advanced" screensavers and personal address >books. How many more of these "advanced" programs do we need? > >The thing that frightens me most about Windows is looking in the Borland >Delphi Bugs List and checking these newsgroups. It is amazing to see the >workaraounds people have to use to solve problems they run into. If this >is an example of professional programming and how to write solid code, >then DOS is the future for us. It is still supported by IBM and Caldera. > >Anyway, with email, who needs a 50 megabyte word processor anymore? > >Best Regards, > >Michael R. Monett >CEO >Analog & Digital Design >PO Box 460 >Victoria Harbor >Ontario Canada L0K 2A0 >mailto:add@csolve.net Win95 is not as solid as DOS, it's true. However, it is a LOT better than Windows 3.1. Not switching from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 because of the bad things you have heard about 95 is a big mistake. Not switching from DOS, on the other hand, I can understand, though you may find new commercial software harder and harder to come by - most people won't buy DOS-based software any more, so most companies no longer target it. Don't be too hard on Delphi, btw - just because Borland are prepared to acknowledge their bugs doesn't mean they have any more than other companies/products. The existence of a well-defined bugs list is a plus, not a minus. Catherine. -- Catherine Rees Lay ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Catherine Rees Lay @ 1997-04-07 0:00 ` James Giles 1997-04-08 0:00 ` Michael Dodas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: James Giles @ 1997-04-07 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Catherine Rees Lay Catherine Rees Lay wrote: [...] > Don't be too hard on Delphi, btw - just because Borland are prepared to > acknowledge their bugs doesn't mean they have any more than other > companies/products. The existence of a well-defined bugs list is a plus, > not a minus. It used to be (in the good old days) that all computer vendors (software or hardware) were very up-front about errors. They would bend over backwards trying to educate users about the present buglist and the status of the respective fixes. The problem in those days was complacent users who couldn't be bothered to look through the known bugs until they got bitten. These days (especially after the Intel floating-point fiasco) vendors seem to be shy about even admitting to having bugs. I suspect it's really due to a perceived changed among company marketing strategists of the expertise of the user community. In the old days, users were only the elite professional type and would not have stood for stone-walling from the vendors. Now, most users are naive newcomers that might shy away from any company with admitted bugs - and who can be bullied into thinking any problems encountered are their own fault. (Note: I'm not saying that this is so. I just think that's the opinion among the vendors.) So, most companies believe it's now in their interest to conceal errors if possible. -- J. Giles Ricercar Software ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... 1997-04-07 0:00 ` James Giles @ 1997-04-08 0:00 ` Michael Dodas 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Michael Dodas @ 1997-04-08 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) .James Giles wrote: .> .> Catherine Rees Lay wrote: .> .> [...] .> .> > Don't be too hard on Delphi, btw - just because Borland are prepared .to .> > acknowledge their bugs doesn't mean they have any more than other .> > companies/products. The existence of a well-defined bugs list is a .plus, .> > not a minus. .> .> It used to be (in the good old days) that all computer vendors .(software .> or hardware) were very up-front about errors. They would bend over .> backwards trying to educate users about the present buglist and the .> status of the respective fixes. The problem in those days was .> complacent users who couldn't be bothered to look through the known .bugs .> until they got bitten. .> .> These days (especially after the Intel floating-point fiasco) vendors .> seem to be shy about even admitting to having bugs. I suspect it's .> really due to a perceived changed among company marketing strategists .of .> the expertise of the user community. In the old days, users were only .> the elite professional type and would not have stood for stone-walling .> from the vendors. Now, most users are naive newcomers that might shy .> away from any company with admitted bugs - and who can be bullied into .> thinking any problems encountered are their own fault. (Note: I'm not .> saying that this is so. I just think that's the opinion among the .> vendors.) So, most companies believe it's now in their interest to .> conceal errors if possible. .> .> -- .> J. Giles .> Ricercar Software I agree completely with you, James. The bugs, errors and problems that are distributed with many of the PC software products are totally unacceptable. The two major reasons I see this happening is (1) to get that next release out, not matter what, because the competition has it and (2) more time is spent making the GUI look nice (dancing ICONS, etc.) at the expense of the internal processes. If you feel like that you, as the customer, are being used as a guinea pig by your software provider because of all of the problems, you probably are. A lot of people accept this. A lot of people also take it for face value that a software product is good just because it has company XYZ's name on it. I don't agree with Caterine when she stated that "just because Borland is prepared to acknowledge their bugs doesn't mean they have any more than other companies/products". All software is not created equally and all software does not have as many bugs as everyone else's. I'm not singling out Borland on this issue--just generalizing this problem as a whole. If software vendors distributed mainframe software with the problems that much of the PC vendors have, they would go out of business. The mainframe environments have never tolerated software with problems like that. Yes, mainframe software can have some problems. But never to the extent of what I've seen on other platforms. Large, commercial environment cannot afford those problems and down-time. There are good PC software products if you take the time to find them. The PC tools I use for software development have proven to be very reliable. But, just like mainframe software, I scrutinize PC software just as much. And, I have never been shy telling a vendor (mainframe or PC) what I think. Too many people forget that its YOUR dime and THEY want it. I do not have the time to continuously fight the same old problems over and over. And I've seen the same problems over and over, from release-to-release, pop up in software. How much of this are you willing to accept before it causes you problems with your projects and how your company runs? Is the hype from software vendors worth the gamble and your time? Mike Dodas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... [not found] ` <3348FC2E.A8B@csolve.net> 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Catherine Rees Lay @ 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1997-04-07 0:00 ` essoft 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-07 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) I am posting this because so many people fail to watch followup groups, so please excuse YET another junk message in this thread. This thread is fiercely cross-posted to: Newsgroups: comp.lang.fortran,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang. cobol,comp.lang.pascal.misc,comp.lang.prolog,comp.lang.basc.visual.misc,de.comp. lang.c The discussion of MS strategy and Win 95 is completely irrelevant to the majority (operhaps ALL) of these groups. Please severely trim the followup list if you want to reply to this thread. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-07 0:00 ` essoft 1997-04-08 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: essoft @ 1997-04-07 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert Dewar wrote: > > The discussion of MS strategy and Win 95 is completely irrelevant > to the majority (operhaps ALL) of these groups. Really!? Don't they use Win3.x based sw that could be affected by this move? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... 1997-04-07 0:00 ` essoft @ 1997-04-08 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Peter Seebach @ 1997-04-08 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <334992BB.66C6@ix.netcom.com>, <essoft@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >Robert Dewar wrote: >> The discussion of MS strategy and Win 95 is completely irrelevant >> to the majority (operhaps ALL) of these groups. [For once, I'm not arguing with him, either...] >Really!? Don't they use Win3.x based sw that could be affected by this >move? Well, I can tell you that I personally use *NO* win 3.x based software. I'm using AmigaDOS, MacOS, '95, and a few flavors of Unix, but I do not own or use any software based on windows 3.1. Furthermore, even if every person in these groups used windows 3.1, *IT WOULD STILL NOT BE RELEVANT*. I'm reading this in comp.lang.c. I expect articles posted to this newsgroup to be about C. Not about some specific system, or politics, or anything else. What software I use is irrelevant. I am using C, mostly indpendant of my target platforms. It may come as a shock to some people that I post and read this much news and still have time, but I have sex sometimes. I eat at least once a day on the average. I sleep. I have a cat. This does *NOT* mean that discussions of sex, food, beds, or cats is topical here. The original message was insultingly stupid and had no place in any of the groups listed that I've ever read. I would like the people who consider it relevant to go away. -s -- Copyright 1997 Peter Seebach - seebs at solon.com - C/Unix Wizard I am not actually gladys@nancynet.com but junk mail is accepted there. The *other* C FAQ, the hacker FAQ, et al. http://www.solon.com/~seebs Unsolicited email (junk mail and ads) is unwelcome, and will be billed for. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... 1997-04-06 0:00 M$ to STRIKE again essoft [not found] ` <3348FC2E.A8B@csolve.net> @ 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Steve Lionel 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 2 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Steve Lionel @ 1997-04-07 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <33489A15.453C@ix.netcom.com>, essoft@ix.netcom.com writes: |>"Bay Area Computer Currents", March 18-31, 1997, page 13 |> |>Apparently, Microsoft has decided that it is time for you to burn your |>bridges. Unlike previous versions of Windows 95, Windows 95 OEM Systems |>Release 2 (OSR2) does not allow dual-booting between it and Windows 3.x. Um, given that OSR2 is supported only when installed on a new system, and not as an upgrade, I don't quite understand the wailing and gnashing of teeth about this. Who knows what the situation will be when the generally available "Windows 97" (or whatever it's called) arrives? There's also non-MS solutions such as Boot Commander, which as far as I know, should work just fine. I agree that MS doesn't really have an incentive to go out of its way to maintain dual-boot compatibility with Windows 3.1, but I don't view this as evidence of evil incarnate. -- Steve Lionel mailto:lionel@quark.zko.dec.com Fortran Development http://www.digital.com/info/slionel.html Digital Equipment Corporation 110 Spit Brook Road, ZKO2-3/N30 Nashua, NH 03062-2698 "Free advice is worth every cent" For information on DIGITAL Fortran, see http://www.digital.com/fortran ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... 1997-04-06 0:00 M$ to STRIKE again essoft [not found] ` <3348FC2E.A8B@csolve.net> 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Steve Lionel @ 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Nick Roberts ` (5 more replies) 2 siblings, 6 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Mark Wilden @ 1997-04-07 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) > Apparently, Microsoft has decided that it is time for you to burn your > bridges. Unlike previous versions of Windows 95, Windows 95 OEM Systems > Release 2 (OSR2) does not allow dual-booting between it and Windows 3.x. Good! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Mark Wilden @ 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Nick Roberts 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Bruce Rosner 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Sharp ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Nick Roberts @ 1997-04-12 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> wrote in article <01bc433c$e5109820$230228ce@default>... > > Apparently, Microsoft has decided that it is time for you to burn your > > bridges. Unlike previous versions of Windows 95, Windows 95 OEM Systems > > Release 2 (OSR2) does not allow dual-booting between it and Windows 3.x. > > Good! Is this "good" as in "let's hope MS have shot themselves in the foot", or "good" as in "people who dual-boot are timewasters/fools/incompetent/*"? Nick. *insert your own favourite term of admonishment here PS: spot the zeugma ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Nick Roberts @ 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Bruce Rosner 1997-04-14 0:00 ` Deutscher 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Bruce Rosner @ 1997-04-13 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Nick Roberts <Nick.Roberts@dial.pipex.com> wrote in article <01bc4776$23c72ce0$22f482c1@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>... > > > Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> wrote in article > <01bc433c$e5109820$230228ce@default>... > > > Apparently, Microsoft has decided that it is time for you to burn your > > > bridges. Unlike previous versions of Windows 95, Windows 95 OEM Systems > > > Release 2 (OSR2) does not allow dual-booting between it and Windows > 3.x. > > > > Good! Microsoft has for a long time now gone after future markets rather than past ones. While there is perhaps currently a large market for software products and services for Windows 3.1 systems, Microsoft wisely (in my opinion) prefers to leave it to third parties who drain their resources fighting for larger scraps of a shrinking market. (Word Perfect, Lotus, Novell, etc.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Bruce Rosner @ 1997-04-14 0:00 ` Deutscher [not found] ` <3353A5E4.2FD4@sni.de> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Deutscher @ 1997-04-14 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Bruce Rosner (brosner@pacbell.net) wrote: : Nick Roberts <Nick.Roberts@dial.pipex.com> wrote in article : <01bc4776$23c72ce0$22f482c1@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>... : > : > : > Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> wrote in article : > <01bc433c$e5109820$230228ce@default>... : > > > Apparently, Microsoft has decided that it is time for you to burn : your : > > > bridges. Unlike previous versions of Windows 95, Windows 95 OEM : Systems : > > > Release 2 (OSR2) does not allow dual-booting between it and Windows : > 3.x. : > > : > > Good! : Microsoft has for a long time now gone after future markets rather than : past ones. While there is perhaps currently a large market for software : products and services for Windows 3.1 systems, Microsoft wisely (in my : opinion) prefers to leave it to third parties who drain their resources : fighting for larger scraps of a shrinking market. (Word Perfect, Lotus, : Novell, etc.) Let me translate: Microsoft has or a long time now gone after complete incomaptibility with it's competitiors and even its own products in order to maximize the amount of money they can collect after every bug fix in their 'operating system'. Microsoft wisely (IMHO) relies on blindfolded people who think this is just great. Stefan -- ======================================================================== Stefan A. Deutscher, sad@utk.edu, (001)-423-[522-7845|974-7838|574-5897] home^ UTK^ ORNL^ ======================================================================== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
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* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... [not found] ` <3353A5E4.2FD4@sni.de> @ 1997-04-16 0:00 ` Tom Wheeley 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Tom Wheeley @ 1997-04-16 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3353A5E4.2FD4@sni.de> hetzer.abg@sni.de "Volker Hetzer" writes: > > : Microsoft has for a long time now gone after future markets rather than > > : past ones. > > You mean, that's why they still drag DOS with them? I don't see MS developing or supporting DOS. Or, for that matter, Win 3.11 -- :sb) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Nick Roberts @ 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Sharp 1997-04-16 0:00 ` Avi Cohen Stuart ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Dave Sharp @ 1997-04-13 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <01bc4776$23c72ce0$22f482c1@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>, Nick Roberts <Nick.Roberts@dial.pipex.com> writes > > >Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> wrote in article ><01bc433c$e5109820$230228ce@default>... >> > Apparently, Microsoft has decided that it is time for you to burn your >> > bridges. Unlike previous versions of Windows 95, Windows 95 OEM Systems >> > Release 2 (OSR2) does not allow dual-booting between it and Windows >3.x. >> >> Good! > > >Is this "good" as in "let's hope MS have shot themselves in the foot", or >"good" as in "people who dual-boot are timewasters/fools/incompetent/*"? > >Nick. > > >*insert your own favourite term of admonishment here >PS: spot the zeugma > > I can't see what this thresd has to do with a prolog group but perahps someone should point out that if you develop systems for people in the real world you have to write for the platform they use. Some of the people I write for insist on still using windows 3.1, for that matter some even still want dos applications. Therefore regardless of the MS view of the future I have to retain all previous systems. I suspect otheres have the same problems. Even if I never wrote another new system for win 3.1 or dos I would still have an obligation to support systems I have written in the past. Dave Sharp BTW perhaps the nicest thing about Prolog is that most of the development comes from the academic community and from commercial developers who are in sympathy with what logic programmers are trying to do. Long may MS and the like keep their hands off it. -- Dave Sharp ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: M$ to STRIKE again... 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Nick Roberts 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Sharp @ 1997-04-16 0:00 ` Avi Cohen Stuart [not found] ` <33555E64.2556@student.csi.cuny.edu> ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Avi Cohen Stuart @ 1997-04-16 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3353A5E4.2FD4@sni.de> Volker Hetzer <hetzer.abg@sni.de> writes: > > : Microsoft has for a long time now gone after future markets rather than > : past ones. You mean, that's why they still drag DOS with them? Yes! What else do you think NT is? Avi. -- A. B. Cohen Stuart, M.Sc. |Baron van Nagellstraat 89|Phone: +31 342 428229 Software Engineer |P.O. Box 143 |Fax : +31 342 428787 Tools / Logic Group |3770 AC Barneveld |Email: avi@baan.nl Baan Research & Development |The Netherlands |Home : +31 33 4728194 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
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* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) [not found] ` <33555E64.2556@student.csi.cuny.edu> @ 1997-04-17 0:00 ` William Frye 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Lint-like program for C++ Steve Dimig 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: William Frye @ 1997-04-17 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) 34110s96@student.csi.cuny.edu wrote: : If one of you could write a cool installation program for UNIX then UNIX : will gain its acceptence and kill crapy NT before its birth. : I hate installing UNIX, but it is so powerful. Try Linux and the latest version of Xfree, these are so simple even I have been able to install Linux(Slackware version) on several PC's. I must admit I have not mad a serious attemp at network installation. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Lint-like program for C++ ... 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) William Frye @ 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Steve Dimig 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Uwe Baemayr ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Steve Dimig @ 1997-04-17 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi -, Does anyone know of a Lint like program for C++. I was recently involved in debugging a memory corruption problem. After a week of inspection and recompilations, we found the problem was in overwriting the bounds of an array. This type of problem would have been caught with lint if our development language was C. Our language, however, is C++. Steve Dimig dimigs@agcs.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Lint-like program for C++ ... 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Lint-like program for C++ Steve Dimig @ 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Uwe Baemayr 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Oliver Boehm 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Chris Durand 2 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Uwe Baemayr @ 1997-04-17 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Steve Dimig wrote: > Does anyone know of a Lint like program for C++. I was recently > involved in debugging a memory corruption problem. After a week of > inspection and recompilations, we found the problem was in overwriting > the bounds of an array. This type of problem would have been caught > with lint if our development language was C. Our language, however, is > C++. > > Steve Dimig > dimigs@agcs.com Yes, Flexelint/PCLINT is first-rate, available for DOS, OS/2, and UNIX. and reasonably priced. Look at www.gimpel.com And now back to our regular COBOL discussions... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Uwe Baemayr | E-mail: uwe@liant.com | | Ryan McFarland Corporation | or: jeannyb@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | | -- a division of Liant Software | Compuserve: 74774,47 / GO LIANT | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Lint-like program for C++ ... 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Lint-like program for C++ Steve Dimig 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Uwe Baemayr @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Oliver Boehm 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1997-04-21 0:00 ` James Youngman 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Chris Durand 2 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Oliver Boehm @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Steve Dimig Steve Dimig wrote: > > Hi -, > > Does anyone know of a Lint like program for C++. I was recently > involved in debugging a memory corruption problem. After a week of > inspection and recompilations, we found the problem was in overwriting > the bounds of an array. This type of problem would have been caught > with lint if our development language was C. Our language, however, is > C++. I don't know if Lint can find the overwriting the bounds of an array because the array is often indexed by a variable. Tools which may help you: ProLint: Lint for C/C++ (www.pts.co.uk) INSURE++: lint(C/C++) + memory monitor + coverage analysis (www.fastcase.com) Purify: memory checker (www.pureatria.com) Also there are some compiler on the markets which offers also runtime checking (I think SPARCworks, ObjectCenter). Oliver ------------------------------------------------v---------- Oliver Boehm OBoehm@stgl.sel.alcatel.de | No RISC - boehm@ba-stuttgart.de | No FUN ------------------------------------------------^---------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Lint-like program for C++ ... 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Oliver Boehm @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1997-04-21 0:00 ` James Youngman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Steve Dimig wrote: > > Hi -, > > Does anyone know of a Lint like program for C++. I was recently > involved in debugging a memory corruption problem. After a week of > inspection and recompilations, we found the problem was in overwriting > the bounds of an array. This type of problem would have been caught > with lint if our development language was C. Our language, however, is > C++. and Oliver Boehn replied > I don't know if Lint can find the overwriting the bounds of an array > because the array is often indexed by a variable. > Tools which may help you: The trouble with both the post and the answer is that they are fiercely cross-posted to: comp.lang.fortran comp.lang.ada comp.lang.c comp.lang.c++ comp.lang.cobol comp.lang.pascal.misc comp.lang.prolog comp.lang.basc.visual.misc de.comp.lang.c and thus went to a lot of irrelevant groups. I note that this is the same list that has been used for the irrelevant thread on Microsoft and Windows. This kind of careless and thoughtless crossposting does a lot of damage to the groups both directly (junk messages) and indirectly (more good people get fed up and stop participating). A good idea is for everyone to try to be more aware of cross-posting. If you must follow up one of these messages, please be careful to trim off the irrelevant newsgroups. Personally, I never reply to messages that are inappropriately cross-posted except to note the inappropriate cross-posting to the original author. If more people took care to do this, then it would become counter productive to spam multiple-groups in hopes of coaxing an answer from someone in an irrelevant group. Of course in this particular case, maybe what the author wanted was piles of advocacy messages for other languages?? :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Lint-like program for C++ ... 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Oliver Boehm 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-21 0:00 ` James Youngman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: James Youngman @ 1997-04-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <33570C43.411F@stgl.sel.alcatel.de>, OBoehm@stgl.sel.alcatel.de says... >Also there are some compiler on the markets which offers also >runtime checking (I think SPARCworks, ObjectCenter). Also, there is a checking version of GCC. -- James Youngman VG Gas Analysis Systems The trouble with the rat-race Before sending advertising material, read is, even if you win, you're http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html still a rat. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Lint-like program for C++ ... 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Lint-like program for C++ Steve Dimig 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Uwe Baemayr 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Oliver Boehm @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Chris Durand 2 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Chris Durand @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Steve Dimig wrote: > > Hi -, > > Does anyone know of a Lint like program for C++. I was recently > involved in debugging a memory corruption problem. After a week of > inspection and recompilations, we found the problem was in overwriting > the bounds of an array. This type of problem would have been caught > with lint if our development language was C. Our language, however, is > C++. > > Steve Dimig > dimigs@agcs.com On the PC, PC-Lint from Gimpel Software (610) 584 4261 is pretty complete and highly configurable. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Mark Wilden ` (3 preceding siblings ...) [not found] ` <33555E64.2556@student.csi.cuny.edu> @ 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Corey Minyard 1997-04-18 0:00 ` S. Narasimh Reddy 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Kim Robert Blix 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Corey Minyard 5 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Corey Minyard @ 1997-04-17 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) 34110s96@student.csi.cuny.edu writes: > > If one of you could write a cool installation program for UNIX then UNIX > will gain its acceptence and kill crapy NT before its birth. > > I hate installing UNIX, but it is so powerful. You obviously haven't installed Linux recently. I hear that many distributions are as easy or easier than Windoze. -- Corey Minyard Internet: minyard@acm.org Work: minyard@nortel.ca UUCP: minyard@wf-rch.cirr.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) Corey Minyard @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` S. Narasimh Reddy 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Da Borg 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Alexander Lehmann 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Kim Robert Blix 1 sibling, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: S. Narasimh Reddy @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In <m2k9m15l7g.fsf@acm.org> Corey Minyard <minyard@acm.org> writes: > >You obviously haven't installed Linux recently. I hear that many >distributions are as easy or easier than Windoze. > Excuse my ignorance. What is Linux (a form of unix for PCs?). Is it really that well supported? SNReddy ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-18 0:00 ` S. Narasimh Reddy @ 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Da Borg 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Jay Lyerly 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Emilio Lopes 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Alexander Lehmann 1 sibling, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Da Borg @ 1997-04-17 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: S. Narasimh Reddy [3 newsgroups trimmed] S. Narasimh Reddy wrote: > In <m2k9m15l7g.fsf@acm.org> Corey Minyard <minyard@acm.org> writes: > >You obviously haven't installed Linux recently. I hear that many > >distributions are as easy or easier than Windoze. > > > Excuse my ignorance. What is Linux (a form of unix for PCs?). Is it > really that well supported? Sure. You can d-load it freely but I doubt you want to pump over 500MB of programs through your phone line. Better check your local CDROM/multimedia store or order directly. Some sites to visit: http://www.linux.org/ http://www.redhat.com/ (<- my favourite distribution) http://www.debian.org/ http://www.linuxnow.com/ It doesn't really recognize some "Plug&Pray" crap by default so choose hardware wisely. Runs on anything from Amigas and 386SX with 2MB of RAM to Dec Alphas, SparkStations and PPro's. Full source code, SysV/BSD extensions, tons of development-related software. BTW, I also like NetBSD, check http://www.netbsd.org/. Not as easy to use and setup but NFS is slightly faster than Linux, also, it is most widely ported OS in existance and free as well. -- When sending private email, please remove underscores in "vladi_mip". #include <disclaimer.h> | *Good pings come in small packets* vladimip AT uniserve.com | Ceterum censeo Microsoftam delendam esse Vancouver, B.C. | SIGSIG -- signature too long (core dumped) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Da Borg @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Jay Lyerly 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Emilio Lopes 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Jay Lyerly @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Da Borg wrote: > > [3 newsgroups trimmed] > > S. Narasimh Reddy wrote: > > In <m2k9m15l7g.fsf@acm.org> Corey Minyard <minyard@acm.org> writes: > > >You obviously haven't installed Linux recently. I hear that many > > >distributions are as easy or easier than Windoze. > > > > > Excuse my ignorance. What is Linux (a form of unix for PCs?). Is it > > really that well supported? > > Sure. You can d-load it freely but I doubt you want to pump > over 500MB of programs through your phone line. Better > check your local CDROM/multimedia store or order directly. > Some sites to visit: > > http://www.linux.org/ > http://www.redhat.com/ (<- my favourite distribution) > http://www.debian.org/ > http://www.linuxnow.com/ > > It doesn't really recognize some "Plug&Pray" crap by default > so choose hardware wisely. Runs on anything from Amigas and > 386SX with 2MB of RAM to Dec Alphas, SparkStations and > PPro's. Full source code, SysV/BSD extensions, tons of > development-related software. > > BTW, I also like NetBSD, check http://www.netbsd.org/. Not > as easy to use and setup but NFS is slightly faster than > Linux, also, it is most widely ported OS in existance and > free as well. > > -- > When sending private email, please remove underscores in "vladi_mip". > #include <disclaimer.h> | *Good pings come in small packets* > vladimip AT uniserve.com | Ceterum censeo Microsoftam delendam esse > Vancouver, B.C. | SIGSIG -- signature too long (core dumped) http://www.cheapbytes.com is a good source for cheap linux CD's. They also have linux and unix reference manuals and motif. jay wjlyerly@unity.ncsu.edu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Da Borg 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Jay Lyerly @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Emilio Lopes 1997-04-18 0:00 ` M A 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Emilio Lopes @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Da Borg (vla_di_mip@uniserve.com) wrote: : Sure. You can d-load it freely but I doubt you want to pump : over 500MB of programs through your phone line. Better : check your local CDROM/multimedia store or order directly. : Some sites to visit: : : http://www.linux.org/ : http://www.redhat.com/ (<- my favourite distribution) : http://www.debian.org/ : http://www.linuxnow.com/ : : It doesn't really recognize some "Plug&Pray" crap by default : so choose hardware wisely. Runs on anything from Amigas and : 386SX with 2MB of RAM to Dec Alphas, SparkStations and : PPro's. Full source code, SysV/BSD extensions, tons of : development-related software. It runs also in a Sparc-based Fujitsu Super-Computer! -- Emilio C. Lopes <mailto:Emilio.Lopes@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Emilio Lopes @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` M A 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Da Borg ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: M A @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Will L Unix (X Windows) ever become the main stream like Windows. If this god damn thing is free how come nobody supports it. Emilio Lopes wrote: > > Da Borg (vla_di_mip@uniserve.com) wrote: > : Sure. You can d-load it freely but I doubt you want to pump > : over 500MB of programs through your phone line. Better > : check your local CDROM/multimedia store or order directly. > : Some sites to visit: > : > : http://www.linux.org/ > : http://www.redhat.com/ (<- my favourite distribution) > : http://www.debian.org/ > : http://www.linuxnow.com/ > : > : It doesn't really recognize some "Plug&Pray" crap by default > : so choose hardware wisely. Runs on anything from Amigas and > : 386SX with 2MB of RAM to Dec Alphas, SparkStations and > : PPro's. Full source code, SysV/BSD extensions, tons of > : development-related software. > > It runs also in a Sparc-based Fujitsu Super-Computer! > > -- > Emilio C. Lopes <mailto:Emilio.Lopes@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-18 0:00 ` M A @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Da Borg 1997-04-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Jose Miguel Perez 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Paul Oldham 2 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Da Borg @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) M A wrote: > > Will L Unix (X Windows) ever become the main stream like Windows. If No, I don't want it to become mainstream. Being mainstream kills the spirit and originality. After all, Linux is for IQ's higher than 95. :) > this god damn thing is free how come nobody supports it. What do you mean by "supported"? Technical support or what? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Da Borg @ 1997-04-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) I am going to risk one more message in this thread in the probably hopeless attempt to get people to notice that this thread was misposted in the first place (perhaps the original post was a deliberate troll -- it had that flavor -- if so, it has succeeded :-( This thread is cross posted to: comp.lang.fortran comp.lang.ada comp.lang.c comp.lang.c++ comp.lang.cobol comp.lang.pascal.misc comp.lang.prolog comp.lang.basc.visual.misc de.comp.lang.c but it is irrelevant to all of them. If you want to continue the thread it should be done in NT advocacy or Linux advocacy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-18 0:00 ` M A 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Da Borg @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Jose Miguel Perez 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Paul Oldham 2 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Jose Miguel Perez @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Well, there is no big company behind Linux, but if you know where to ask you can find lots of support, and I mean a really good one. (Most of these guys are hackers -in the good sense- that one way or another get to solve the problem) I don't think however Linux will be a main stream system like Windows. I think it will be a waste of time to have a home computer, say, with Linux. But for a cheap workstation may be a good choice. It's a pity big companies are not producing software for Linux. (there are exceptions, of course, like Netscape and others). This might change though as Java gets better (I mean, with the awt and jni you can create internet ready gui interfaces independently -more or less- of the platform. You can write the core of your programs in whatever language you like -provided c wrappers-). On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, M A wrote: > Will L Unix (X Windows) ever become the main stream like Windows. If > this god damn thing is free how come nobody supports it. > > Emilio Lopes wrote: > > > > Da Borg (vla_di_mip@uniserve.com) wrote: > > : Sure. You can d-load it freely but I doubt you want to pump > > : over 500MB of programs through your phone line. Better > > : check your local CDROM/multimedia store or order directly. > > : Some sites to visit: > > : > > : http://www.linux.org/ > > : http://www.redhat.com/ (<- my favourite distribution) > > : http://www.debian.org/ > > : http://www.linuxnow.com/ > > : > > : It doesn't really recognize some "Plug&Pray" crap by default > > : so choose hardware wisely. Runs on anything from Amigas and > > : 386SX with 2MB of RAM to Dec Alphas, SparkStations and > > : PPro's. Full source code, SysV/BSD extensions, tons of > > : development-related software. > > > > It runs also in a Sparc-based Fujitsu Super-Computer! > > > > -- > > Emilio C. Lopes <mailto:Emilio.Lopes@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE> > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-18 0:00 ` M A 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Da Borg 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Jose Miguel Perez @ 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Paul Oldham 1997-04-21 0:00 ` C.Pitz 2 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Paul Oldham @ 1997-04-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:21:03 -0700, M A <34110s96@student.csi.cuny.edu> growled: >Will L Unix (X Windows) ever become the main stream like Windows. If >this god damn thing is free how come nobody supports it. Lots of people support it. You can even buy commercial support. However if you mean no Cobol compilers then I guess it's that they're different markets. Linux's big "markets" are home users and in businesses network services: servers, especially web servers, firewalls and the like. -- Paul Oldham, Milton, Cambridge, UK http://www.the-hug.demon.co.uk/paul/ To email me take the "x" off the *reply-to* address ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Paul Oldham @ 1997-04-21 0:00 ` C.Pitz 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: C.Pitz @ 1997-04-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Look at http://www.acucobol.com/Products/ACUCOBOL-85/ACU85-portlist.txt and you will see that AcuCobol-85 is available for Linux. Carsten Pitz ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-18 0:00 ` S. Narasimh Reddy 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Da Borg @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Alexander Lehmann 1997-04-18 0:00 ` kwm 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Alexander Lehmann @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) > In <m2k9m15l7g.fsf@acm.org> Corey Minyard <minyard@acm.org> writes: > > > > >You obviously haven't installed Linux recently. I hear that many > >distributions are as easy or easier than Windoze. > > > Excuse my ignorance. What is Linux (a form of unix for PCs?). Is it > really that well supported? > SNReddy BETTER THAN WINDOWS! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Alexander Lehmann @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` kwm 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: kwm @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Alexander Lehmann wrote: > > > In <m2k9m15l7g.fsf@acm.org> Corey Minyard <minyard@acm.org> writes: > > > > > > > >You obviously haven't installed Linux recently. I hear that many > > >distributions are as easy or easier than Windoze. > > > > > Excuse my ignorance. What is Linux (a form of unix for PCs?). Is it > > really that well supported? > > SNReddy > > BETTER THAN WINDOWS! Heheheh... that is, assuming that Windows is actually "supported"? Does anyone actually get any useful technical support from Microsoft? From what I've heard, their "support" is 'technically correct' but totally useless! <grin> OTOH, technical support for Linux isn't bound by the walls of any one corporation... rather, the support is global, and for the most part, fast and accurate! Linux was born and raised on the Internet. The support comes from "home". -- Kenneth W. Melvin email: kwmelvin@nr.infi.net http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8823/index.html LinuX IS user friendly. It's just choosey about who its friends are. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) Corey Minyard 1997-04-18 0:00 ` S. Narasimh Reddy @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Kim Robert Blix 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Kim Robert Blix @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Corey Minyard <minyard@acm.org> once said: >You obviously haven't installed Linux recently. I hear that many >distributions are as easy or easier than Windoze. Except when the kernels provided on the distribution media dont recognise your cdrom, soundcard or disks. Thats when the fun begins. ;) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Kim Robert Blix ( kblix@sn.no & http://home.sn.no/~kblix ) "How do you shoot the devil in the back?" "What if you miss?" -Verbal Kint =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Mark Wilden ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) Corey Minyard @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Corey Minyard 5 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Corey Minyard @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) snreddy@ix.netcom.com(S. Narasimh Reddy) writes: > > In <m2k9m15l7g.fsf@acm.org> Corey Minyard <minyard@acm.org> writes: > > > > >You obviously haven't installed Linux recently. I hear that many > >distributions are as easy or easier than Windoze. > > > Excuse my ignorance. What is Linux (a form of unix for PCs?). Is it > really that well supported? > SNReddy Wow, I thought everyone had heard of Linux. Yes, it is a free industrial strength *nix clone for PCs, Alpha, PowerPCs, Sparcs, etc. I use it daily at home and at work on my PowerMac. You can go to http://www.redhat/com to learn more. You can probably go to your local computer store, book store, or CDROM store and get an install CDROM pretty cheap. -- Corey Minyard Internet: minyard@acm.org Work: minyard@nortel.ca UUCP: minyard@wf-rch.cirr.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1997-04-21 0:00 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 37+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1997-04-06 0:00 M$ to STRIKE again essoft [not found] ` <3348FC2E.A8B@csolve.net> 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Catherine Rees Lay 1997-04-07 0:00 ` James Giles 1997-04-08 0:00 ` Michael Dodas 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1997-04-07 0:00 ` essoft 1997-04-08 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Steve Lionel 1997-04-07 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Nick Roberts 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Bruce Rosner 1997-04-14 0:00 ` Deutscher [not found] ` <3353A5E4.2FD4@sni.de> 1997-04-16 0:00 ` Tom Wheeley 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Sharp 1997-04-16 0:00 ` Avi Cohen Stuart [not found] ` <33555E64.2556@student.csi.cuny.edu> 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) William Frye 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Lint-like program for C++ Steve Dimig 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Uwe Baemayr 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Oliver Boehm 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1997-04-21 0:00 ` James Youngman 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Chris Durand 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Best way to kill Microsoft (Re: M$ to STRIKE again...) Corey Minyard 1997-04-18 0:00 ` S. Narasimh Reddy 1997-04-17 0:00 ` Da Borg 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Jay Lyerly 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Emilio Lopes 1997-04-18 0:00 ` M A 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Da Borg 1997-04-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Jose Miguel Perez 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Paul Oldham 1997-04-21 0:00 ` C.Pitz 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Alexander Lehmann 1997-04-18 0:00 ` kwm 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Kim Robert Blix 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Corey Minyard
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