* Re: Looking for ADA
1997-03-14 0:00 ` Looking for ADA Rick Thorne
@ 1997-03-15 0:00 ` John Breen
1997-03-15 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-15 0:00 ` Dave Wood
1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
2 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: John Breen @ 1997-03-15 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
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Rick Thorne wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>In article <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline>,
"Warren Wickline"
<BR><wickline@comp-res.com> wrote:
<BR>
<BR><I>> I'm still a college student, and I was wondering if anyone could
help me</I>
<BR><I>> find a cheap ada compiler.</I>
<BR>
<BR>For the PC?!? This is kind of like asking "Gee, I'm married
with 8 kids.
<BR>Can anyone help me get a cheap divorce and keep my child support to a
<BR>minimum?"
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Not really - GNAT is free, as is the ADACAPS�IDE which runs with it.
Try <A HREF="ftp://ftp.cs.nyu.edu">ftp://ftp.cs.nyu.edu</A> (at least I
think that's it :))
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<BR>
<BR>As a college student, why are you bothering with Ada anyway? My
<BR>recommendations:
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Some universities and colleges, like mine now use Ada rather than Pascal
and C for teching programming. I was forced to learn Ada 83 and now
Ada-95 just because my Uni. decided to change my course on me.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<BR>1) Learn C, C++, Java, and other language technologies that actually have
<BR>a future in the US.
<BR>
<BR>2) Don't sweat Ada unless you get a job in a US DoD contractor's shop or
a
<BR>job in Europe, then let THEM pay you to work while you learn the language.
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Cheers,
<BR>
<BR>john Breen
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for ADA
1997-03-14 0:00 ` Looking for ADA Rick Thorne
1997-03-15 0:00 ` John Breen
@ 1997-03-15 0:00 ` Dave Wood
1997-03-15 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
2 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Dave Wood @ 1997-03-15 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
Rick Thorne wrote:
>
> In article <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline>, "Warren Wickline"
> <wickline@comp-res.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm still a college student, and I was wondering if anyone could help me
> > find a cheap ada compiler.
>
> For the PC?!? This is kind of like asking "Gee, I'm married with 8 kids.
> Can anyone help me get a cheap divorce and keep my child support to a
> minimum?"
I'd say you're out of touch. ObjectAda for Windows costs $50
for students. Last I checked, this was less expensive than
(for example) the Borland C++ educational price. Alternatively,
you can get a free Special Edition of ObjectAda for Windows attached
to Mike Feldman's Ada 95 textbook.
For that matter, GNAT is free as well, but for the effort of the
downloading.
> As a college student, why are you bothering with Ada anyway?
Perhaps because his professor recognizes that Ada is superior
as a teaching language to C/C++?
> My recommendations:
>
> 1) Learn C, C++, Java, and other language technologies that actually have
> a future in the US.
Interesting. I wouldn't bank too much on C/C++, as the rise of Java
will come at the expense of these languages more than any other. Not
that C/C++ will rot away and die, but I wouldn't forecast a whole lot
of growth. There will be a glut of C/C++ programmers out there,
competing for the same set of opportunities. Those opportunities will
be less and less interesting as the fun stuff migrates to Java and
the really complex and challenging stuff remains a strong suit of Ada
(which also supports the JVM, but that's another topic.)
> 2) Don't sweat Ada unless you get a job in a US DoD contractor's shop or a
> job in Europe, then let THEM pay you to work while you learn the language.
... or unless you might be interested in working in some boring area
like
cutting edge Boing commercial avionics, Westinghouse nuclear plant
controls, or the NASA space station, rather than experience the
excitement
of writing unix file filters and hacking null pointer dereferences.
Well, if you can stereotype, so can I. :-)
> 3) Keep your C, C++, & Java skills sharp whilst you work with Ada, because
> Ada's going away quickly, yes, even in the DoD world because of the Perry
> Initiative and the soon-to-happen elimination of the Ada Requirements
> (probably by july '97).
Interesting theory. I can tell you that sales of my products have
risen sharply over the past year, and I can assure you the phenomenon
has nothing at all to do with DoD requirements.
Still, I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from having "sharp skills"
in C, C++, or Java. After all, we encourage multi-lingual development
solutions. It's a surreal experience to see Ada source code being
debugged by Visual J++.
In any event, my position has always been that anyone who cannot
ramp up to speed in a very short period of time for any general
purpose langauge has no business considering him/herself a software
engineer. That's where the "sharp skills" pay off. Language is
important to the program, but should be irrelevant to the programmer.
> 4) Learn OOA/D methods; these are the elements of the Software Crisis
> unsolved by Ada. As Brooks stated in "No Silver Bullet": Ada is just a
> programming language. It doesn't cover all the ground by any means.
I think this is perhaps a perverse interpretation of a very fine
bit of writing.
Further, if you think that OOA/D methods are in any way a silver
bullet, I'd suggest you take another look at Brooks' title. His
central point was that it takes good methods, good tools, good
languages, good processes, and above all good engineers to slay
the beast. Encouraging a student to forego looking into a good
language seems inconsistent with your reference to Brooks.
> Good luck, and look to a future that HAS a future.
Skilled and thoughtful software engineers have an excellent
future, regardless of transient technological choices. Personally,
I'd rather work on *projects* that have a future. Anybody can
get a job, but if I'm going to spend years of my life on a project,
I'd like to see it fly rather than fall into the great software
graveyard. My opinion and experience is that projects based on Ada
have a better shot at making it over the long haul.
> --
> ? Rick Thorne ? "I'm quite illiterate, ?
> ? software engineer by day ? but I read a lot" ?
> ? harried father of two by night ? J. D. Salinger ?
> ? rick.thorne@lmco.com ? ?
Don't quit your night job. :-)
-- Dave Wood
-- Product Manager, ObjectAda for Windows
-- Aonix - "We don' need no stinking mandate."
-- http://www.aonix.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for ADA
1997-03-14 0:00 ` Looking for ADA Rick Thorne
1997-03-15 0:00 ` John Breen
1997-03-15 0:00 ` Dave Wood
@ 1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: the one and only real true kibo @ 1997-03-23 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
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On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:53:08 -0800 in article <rick.thorne-1403970953080001@129.197.97.40> posted to comp.lang.ada, Rick Thorne <rick.thorne@lmco.com> wrote:
> In article <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline>, "Warren Wickline"
> <wickline@comp-res.com> wrote:
> > I'm still a college student, and I was wondering if anyone could help me
> > find a cheap ada compiler.
> For the PC?!? This is kind of like asking "Gee, I'm married with 8 kids.
> Can anyone help me get a cheap divorce and keep my child support to a
> minimum?"
Ha ha ha.
> As a college student, why are you bothering with Ada anyway? My
> recommendations:
> 1) Learn C, C++, Java, and other language technologies that actually have
> a future in the US.
That's right - forget ADA, it's dead.
> 2) Don't sweat Ada unless you get a job in a US DoD contractor's shop or a
> job in Europe, then let THEM pay you to work while you learn the language.
Not a chance. Refuse to take a job that requires you to learn ADA.
> 3) Keep your C, C++, & Java skills sharp whilst you work with Ada, because
> Ada's going away quickly, yes, even in the DoD world because of the Perry
> Initiative and the soon-to-happen elimination of the Ada Requirements
> (probably by july '97).
Don't use ADA to begin with.
> 4) Learn OOA/D methods; these are the elements of the Software Crisis
> unsolved by Ada. As Brooks stated in "No Silver Bullet": Ada is just a
> programming language. It doesn't cover all the ground by any means.
You can do anythijg in SQL. Who needs a procedureal language anyway.
I am the only true <A HREF="http://www.dhp.com/~kibo">Kibo</A>.
Finger me for my PGP public key. Check out my home page for the coolest
way to vote on new newsgroup proposals or to issue Usenet cancels.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread