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From: lgmayka@sprynet.com (Lawrence G. Mayka)
Subject: Re: Exceptions as objects (was Re: What is wrong with OO ?)
Date: 1997/01/30
Date: 1997-01-30T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <32f7fe48.174476787@news.sprynet.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: yf3wwsxqw1z.fsf@sabi.demon.co.uk


piercarl@sabi.demon.co.uk (Piercarlo Grandi) wrote:

>It is much better to provide the two things separatley, for this allows
>for example ``exception handling'' _without_ forcing control transfers,
>and control transfers without necessarily involving dynamically scoped
>identifiers. And then runtime parametrization via dynamically scoped
>variables...

Ironically, though, your first posting in this thread was a response
to =my= posting, pointing out to Mr. Stroustrup that his design for
exception handling was implemented years earlier in Common Lisp.  As
you may know, Common Lisp has long had both nonlocal control transfers
(THROW and CATCH--perhaps Bjarne even borrowed his keywords from
Lisp!) and dynamically scoped variables (as an option, along with the
default behavior of lexical scoping).  Indeed, some implementations of
ANSI Common Lisp exception handling do indeed employ these earlier
constructs.  Just as you suggest, dynamically scoped functions are
easily simulated via dynamically scoped variables whose values are
function objects, or via syntax extension (the Common Lisp
macroization system).

But what your scheme lacks is a classification or "matching"
mechanism.  Common Lisp was well-prepared to provide this because,
even before the standardization of CLOS, it offered the
single-inheritance capability of DEFSTRUCT and the type-testing
operator TYPEP; and so the Pittman Condition System was implementable
entirely on top of 1985-vintage Common Lisp constructs, yet easily
extendible to CLOS later.

One other very useful element both your scheme and that of C++ lacks
is that of closures as handlers.  Very often, an exception handler is
more comfortably and easily written as a lexically scoped function
that manipulates the variables of an outer function.  Again, Common
Lisp already had full-power lexical closures by 1985, whereas C++
still doesn't.

You may ask, if a language such as Common Lisp already has all the
necessary base capabilities, why provide the "syntactic sugar" of
exception handling constructs?  To clarify, standardize, and perhaps
optimize conventional usages.  Since Common Lisp supports syntax
extension (a powerful macroization system), programmers would probably
be writing such syntactic encapsulations anyway; we may as well
standardize them to enhance portability of programs, skills,
knowledge, etc.


Lawrence G. Mayka
lgmayka@sprynet.com




  parent reply	other threads:[~1997-01-30  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 260+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-01-01  0:00 What is wrong with OO ? Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-02  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-03  0:00     ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-03  0:00       ` What is wrong with OO O X g Greg Comeau
1997-01-04  0:00         ` OO, C++, and something much better! John (Max) Skaller
1997-01-04  0:00           ` vlad
1997-01-05  0:00           ` Mike Anderson
1997-01-06  0:00           ` Chris Brand
1997-01-06  0:00           ` Stanley Allen
1997-01-09  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-08  0:00     ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-09  0:00     ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-27  0:00       ` Richard Riehle
1997-01-10  0:00     ` Robb Nebbe
1997-01-10  0:00     ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-03  0:00   ` What is wrong with OO ? Matt Austern
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-04  0:00   ` Valerie Torres
1997-01-06  0:00     ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-08  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00         ` William Clodius
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Simon Willcocks
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Jay Martin
1997-01-09  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Joe Buck
1997-01-11  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00                   ` Laurent Gasser
1997-01-15  0:00                     ` Jay Martin
1997-01-15  0:00                     ` Jonas Nygren
1997-01-17  0:00                       ` Tom Bushell
1997-01-17  0:00                         ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-17  0:00                         ` Michael Malak
1997-01-17  0:00                           ` Kent Budge, sandia, 
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                   ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-12  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Slavik Zorin
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-11  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Thierry Goubier
1997-01-14  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-14  0:00             ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-16  0:00               ` Mark Woodruff
1997-01-17  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Michael Malak
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-12  0:00               ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00       ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-11  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00           ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-19  0:00             ` Jay Martin
1997-01-27  0:00               ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-30  0:00                 ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-20  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-01-21  0:00               ` John W. Sarkela
1997-01-23  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-23  0:00             ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-24  0:00               ` language marketing question, was " Tom Moran
     [not found]                 ` <5cpdh8$mau@news.csus.edu>
     [not found]                   ` <5cs3un$14b4@uni.library.ucla.edu>
     [not found]                     ` <rmartin-3101971753460001@pool15-027.wwa.com>
     [not found]                       ` <5cu5ig$10fk@uni.library.ucla.edu>
     [not found]                         ` <5dao0p$gri@decius.ultra.net>
     [not found]                           ` <yf3n2th488t.fsf@sabi.demon.co.uk>
1997-02-11  0:00                             ` Worse is better, was: Language marketing question Bob Haugen
1997-02-11  0:00                               ` Donald M. MacQueen
1997-02-11  0:00                                 ` Lee Willis
     [not found]                         ` <yf3rait49b9.fsf@sabi.demon.co.uk>
     [not found]                           ` <01bc183b$fd091820$1544db03@gecmf-pc-eddjab.gecmf.capital.ge.com>
1997-02-13  0:00                             ` language marketing question, was Re: What is wrong with OO ? Robert Dewar
1997-01-25  0:00               ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-26  0:00             ` Sean Case
1997-01-26  0:00               ` William Grosso
1997-01-28  0:00                 ` Paul Keister
1997-01-28  0:00               ` Dann Corbit
1997-01-12  0:00         ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-13  0:00           ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-12  0:00         ` Matt Telles
1997-01-15  0:00           ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-19  0:00             ` Matthew Heaney
1997-01-14  0:00         ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-16  0:00           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-16  0:00             ` Risto Lankinen
1997-01-16  0:00               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-16  0:00                 ` Risto Lankinen
1997-01-18  0:00                 ` Robert C. Martin
     [not found]           ` <01bc0269$3fd55b20$ca61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1997-02-10  0:00             ` richard
1997-02-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-10  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]                 ` <3303A993.759E@pratique.fr>
1997-02-21  0:00                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-02-22  0:00                     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-02-21  0:00                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-01-20  0:00         ` David Emery
     [not found]       ` <dewar.852772995@mer <dewar.852833957@merv>
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Simon Willcocks
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Marky Mark
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-12  0:00                   ` Josh Stern
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Martin ELLISON
1997-01-14  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-17  0:00     ` Lawrence G. Mayka
1997-01-19  0:00       ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-19  0:00         ` Exceptions as objects (was Re: What is wrong with OO ?) Patrick Doyle
1997-01-25  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-25  0:00             ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-25  0:00               ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-28  0:00                 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-28  0:00                 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-25  0:00             ` Ronald E Jeffries
1997-01-25  0:00               ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-28  0:00                 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-29  0:00                   ` Robert A Duff
1997-01-29  0:00                   ` John W. Sarkela
     [not found]                     ` <yf33evav882.fsf@sabi.demon.co.uk>
     [not found]                       ` <32FA58AD.2D96@enfish.com>
1997-02-12  0:00                         ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-30  0:00                   ` Lawrence G. Mayka [this message]
1997-01-30  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-29  0:00                 ` John (Max) Skaller
1997-01-25  0:00               ` Bryan Dollery
1997-01-28  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-25  0:00             ` Paul Kyzivat
     [not found]             ` <5cu43v$jkn@nntpa.cb.lucent.com>
     [not found]               ` <5d93d3$nhs$1@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>
1997-02-07  0:00                 ` Robert A Duff
     [not found]                 ` <5dds5b$gcs@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
     [not found]                   ` <01bc14ab$3ce476e0$752d54c7@vbykov.hip.cam.org>
     [not found]                     ` <5def36$rjd@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
1997-02-07  0:00                       ` Vassili Bykov
1997-02-07  0:00                         ` Bill Gooch
1997-02-07  0:00                           ` Vassili Bykov
1997-02-08  0:00                         ` Fergus Henderson
1997-02-08  0:00                           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-08  0:00                           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-11  0:00                           ` Vassili Bykov
1997-02-07  0:00                     ` Robert A Duff
1997-02-10  0:00                       ` Vassili Bykov
1997-02-07  0:00                     ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                   ` <5de57h$dm3$1@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>
1997-02-09  0:00                     ` Fergus Henderson
     [not found]               ` <yf3ybd14qn4.fsf@sabi.demon.co.uk>
     [not found]                 ` <5de797$1ksa@uni.library.ucla.edu>
1997-02-07  0:00                   ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-08  0:00                     ` Jay Martin
1997-01-04  0:00   ` OO, C++, and something much better! Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-06  0:00   ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen FOU.TD/DELAB
1997-01-06  0:00     ` Michael F Brenner
1997-01-06  0:00       ` Tucker Taft
1997-01-07  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-07  0:00       ` Ada Generics (was Re: OO, C++, and something much better!) Bob Gilbert
1997-01-07  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-08  0:00       ` OO, C++, and something much better! Robert Dewar
1997-01-07  0:00     ` Jay Martin
1997-01-08  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-08  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-08  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Ted Dennison
1997-01-07  0:00     ` Andrew Koenig
1997-01-10  0:00       ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-12  0:00     ` Richard Riehle
1997-01-07  0:00   ` What is wrong with OO ? Jon S Anthony
1997-01-11  0:00     ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-21  0:00       ` rharlos*cybercomm.net
1997-02-10  0:00       ` richard
1997-02-10  0:00         ` Charles A. Jolley
1997-02-11  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-12  0:00             ` C++ Class Loc Minh Phan Van
1997-02-12  0:00               ` William Ying
1997-02-12  0:00               ` Kevin J. Hopps
1997-02-12  0:00               ` Jason Shankel
1997-02-12  0:00               ` Kent Tong
1997-02-12  0:00               ` John Kapson [C]
1997-02-12  0:00               ` Paul Kenneth Egell-Johnsen
1997-02-12  0:00               ` Aaron J Margosis
1997-02-12  0:00               ` Ron Smith
1997-02-12  0:00               ` Keith P. Boruff
1997-02-12  0:00                 ` Vlastimil Adamovsky
1997-03-03  0:00                 ` C++ Class [ not a good answer ] Luis Espinal
1997-03-06  0:00                   ` Tom Plunket
1997-02-13  0:00               ` C++ Class Lee, Shih Hao
1997-02-17  0:00             ` What is wrong with OO ? Sam Inala
1997-02-17  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-15  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-11  0:00         ` Vlastimil Adamovsky
1997-01-07  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-07  0:00   ` OO, C++, and something much better! Stanley Allen
1997-01-07  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-07  0:00       ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-08  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-08  0:00         ` Matthew Heaney
1997-01-10  0:00       ` Keith Thompson
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00           ` Richard Kenner
1997-01-15  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-20  0:00             ` Andrew Koenig
1997-01-25  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen FOU.TD/DELAB
1997-01-08  0:00   ` Kohler Markus
1997-01-08  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-08  0:00     ` Mark A Biggar
1997-01-09  0:00       ` Don Harrison
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Roy Phillips
1997-01-27  0:00           ` Nick Leaton
1997-01-28  0:00             ` matthew mclellan
1997-01-09  0:00     ` Don Harrison
1997-01-09  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-13  0:00         ` Don Harrison
1997-01-13  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-13  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00               ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-17  0:00                 ` Keith Thompson
1997-01-16  0:00               ` Keith Thompson
1997-01-16  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-13  0:00             ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-14  0:00             ` Michael F Brenner
1997-01-14  0:00             ` Don Harrison
1997-01-13  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-14  0:00             ` Don Harrison
1997-01-10  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-13  0:00         ` Don Harrison
1997-01-13  0:00           ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-15  0:00             ` Don Harrison
1997-01-13  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-01-14  0:00             ` Jeff Carter
1997-01-15  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-01-17  0:00                 ` Norman H. Cohen
1997-01-17  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-18  0:00             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-20  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-08  0:00   ` David Emery
1997-01-09  0:00     ` Don Harrison
1997-01-10  0:00       ` Marky Mark
1997-01-14  0:00         ` Don Harrison
1997-01-10  0:00   ` Matt Austern
1997-01-10  0:00   ` What is wrong with OO ? Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-12  0:00     ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-10  0:00   ` Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-12  0:00     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00   ` OO, C++, and something much better! Jon S Anthony
1997-01-12  0:00   ` What is wrong with OO ? Chris Morgan
1997-01-12  0:00   ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-11  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-13  0:00   ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-13  0:00   ` Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-13  0:00     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-13  0:00   ` ak
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Chris Bitmead
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-26  0:00     ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Ulrich Windl
1997-01-08  0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
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