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From: tbushell@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tom Bushell)
Subject: Re: What is wrong with OO ?
Date: 1997/01/01
Date: 1997-01-01T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <32ca9f2d.174894569@news.nstn.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: rmartin-3112960928090001@pool11-019.wwa.com


On Tue, 31 Dec 1996 09:28:08 -0600, rmartin@oma.com (Robert C. Martin)
wrote:

>This is undoubtedly true.  As engineers we need a CAE system that combines
>the CASE tool, editor, compiler, documentation tool, debugger, test plan
>generator, simulator, etc into a single seamless facility.  We should be 
>able to browse through our design diagrams, focusing into certain points,
>double clicking on an adornment or icon to bring up a stretch of "source code"
>which we could edit.  Then build and debug in the same environment.

Exactly.  And since we're dreaming, let's take it a bit further.  You
should be able to edit the system at whatever level of abstraction you
are viewing it.  For example, adding a new argument to a method call
would propagate through the whole system automatically, or create a
map of errors where more detailed fixing was required.

If the system was runnable before the high level change, and nothing
was broken by the change, it should still run - immediately!


>Of course, after a little practice, the notion of turning right immediately
>translates into the corresponding pressures and velocity profiles for the
>stick and the pedals.  No thought is required.  The appropriate responses become
>wired into the brain.  

Seems to me this kind of eye/body type of learning comes much more
naturally to humans than textual "book learning" does.  Presumably the
parts of our brain that deal with written language evolved much more
recently, and are less advanced.


>So it is with any computer language.  Once you have mastered it, its use
>becomes wired in, and the struggle with the layer between design and 
>implementation disappears.

Very true.  But my experience has been that "wiring in" to certain
languages is easier.  Smalltalk especially, Forth, and to a certain
extent Visual BASIC seem much more natural and comfortable than C/C++,
at least for me.  I believe this is because they were concieved as
_personal_ computer languages, so are highly interactive and open.
C/C++ are FORTRAN descendants, which evolved in a mainframe batch
environment.  Of course, the supporting development environment can
have a very large effect too - I'll take a GUI over a command line any
day.

It seems much easier to get into a state of flow when using these
languages - you just code and test, and everything seems to work.  I
can hardly ever achieve this happy state in C, even though it's one of
my most familiar languages - it's just too much like work.

Interestingly enough, this can often be done without a lot of up front
design, and rarely results in a mess.  

Many years ago, I read a very short article by a PC game developer.
He talked about programming as "jamming", using the term the same way
musicians do.  I thought it was a very good analogy - implies a very
smooth and natural process of creation.

IMO, the more "sensual" (ie see/hear/smell/touch/taste) we can make
our development tools, the more efficient and creative the development
process will become.  Visual programming is just a big step in this
direction.

-Tom


----------------------------------------------------------
Tom Bushell           * Custom Software Development
Telekinetics            * Process Improvement Consulting
2653 Highway 202          * Technical Writing
RR#1, Elmsdale, NS
B0N 1M0
(902)632-2772         Email: tbushell@fox.nstn.ns.ca
----------------------------------------------------------




  reply	other threads:[~1997-01-01  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 465+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1996-12-31  0:00 What is wrong with OO ? Ell
1996-12-31  0:00 ` Ian Joyner
1996-12-31  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-01  0:00     ` Tom Bushell [this message]
1997-01-02  0:00     ` Thaddeus L. Olczyk
1997-01-03  0:00       ` Case Tools for OO (was Re: What is wrong with OO ?) Mark Smith
1997-01-03  0:00         ` APEX - WAS: " Nigel Tzeng
1997-01-03  0:00     ` Software Development Environments (Was: " Stephen Riehm
1997-01-03  0:00       ` Nigel Tzeng
1997-01-04  0:00       ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-01-06  0:00       ` Key Abstraction that is coming Mark Smith
1997-01-06  0:00         ` John Howard
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-07  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-06  0:00       ` Software Development Environments (Was: What is wrong with OO ?) Tom Bushell
1997-01-06  0:00   ` drush
1997-01-06  0:00   ` drush
1997-01-07  0:00   ` What is wrong with OO ? drush
1996-12-31  0:00 ` Nigel Tzeng
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-02-11  0:00 Ell
1997-02-11  0:00 ` John Brady
1997-02-11  0:00 ` Matt McClellan
1997-02-12  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-12  0:00   ` Kevin J. Hopps
     [not found]     ` <33049C7C.41C6@wi.leidenuniv.nl>
1997-02-17  0:00       ` Kevin J. Hopps
1997-02-17  0:00         ` phil
1997-02-18  0:00     ` Simon Willcocks
1997-02-12  0:00   ` Hamilton, Robert Bryan       
1997-02-12  0:00   ` David B. Shapcott [C]
1997-02-12  0:00   ` Ketil Z Malde
1997-02-13  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-13  0:00     ` Hamilton, Robert Bryan       
1997-02-13  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-15  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-16  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-12  0:00 ` Russ McClelland
1997-02-12  0:00 ` Bob Jarvis
1997-02-13  0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen FOU.TD/DELAB
1997-01-18  0:00 Ell
1997-01-15  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-14  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-12  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-12  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-11  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-06  0:00 John Walker
1997-01-03  0:00 Ell
1997-01-03  0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-06  0:00   ` Steven Perryman
1997-01-08  0:00     ` Russ McClelland
1997-01-06  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-02  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-03  0:00     ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Matt Austern
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-04  0:00   ` Valerie Torres
1997-01-06  0:00     ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-08  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Simon Willcocks
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Jay Martin
1997-01-09  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Joe Buck
1997-01-11  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                   ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-12  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00                   ` Laurent Gasser
1997-01-15  0:00                     ` Jay Martin
1997-01-15  0:00                     ` Jonas Nygren
1997-01-17  0:00                       ` Tom Bushell
1997-01-17  0:00                         ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-17  0:00                         ` Michael Malak
1997-01-17  0:00                           ` Kent Budge, sandia, 
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Slavik Zorin
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-11  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Thierry Goubier
1997-01-14  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-14  0:00             ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-16  0:00               ` Mark Woodruff
1997-01-17  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00         ` William Clodius
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Michael Malak
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-12  0:00               ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00       ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-11  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00           ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-19  0:00             ` Jay Martin
1997-01-27  0:00               ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-30  0:00                 ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-20  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-01-21  0:00               ` John W. Sarkela
1997-01-23  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-23  0:00             ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-25  0:00               ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-26  0:00             ` Sean Case
1997-01-26  0:00               ` William Grosso
1997-01-28  0:00                 ` Paul Keister
1997-01-28  0:00               ` Dann Corbit
1997-01-12  0:00         ` Matt Telles
1997-01-15  0:00           ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-19  0:00             ` Matthew Heaney
1997-01-12  0:00         ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-13  0:00           ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-14  0:00         ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-16  0:00           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-16  0:00             ` Risto Lankinen
1997-01-16  0:00               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-16  0:00                 ` Risto Lankinen
1997-01-18  0:00                 ` Robert C. Martin
     [not found]           ` <01bc0269$3fd55b20$ca61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1997-02-10  0:00             ` richard
1997-02-10  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]                 ` <3303A993.759E@pratique.fr>
1997-02-21  0:00                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-02-22  0:00                     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-02-21  0:00                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-02-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-20  0:00         ` David Emery
     [not found]       ` <dewar.852772995@mer <dewar.852833957@merv>
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Simon Willcocks
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Marky Mark
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-12  0:00                   ` Josh Stern
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Martin ELLISON
1997-01-14  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-17  0:00     ` Lawrence G. Mayka
1997-01-19  0:00       ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-07  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-07  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-11  0:00     ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-21  0:00       ` rharlos*cybercomm.net
1997-02-10  0:00       ` richard
1997-02-10  0:00         ` Charles A. Jolley
1997-02-11  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-17  0:00             ` Sam Inala
1997-02-17  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-15  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-11  0:00         ` Vlastimil Adamovsky
1997-01-10  0:00   ` Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-12  0:00     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-12  0:00     ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-12  0:00   ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-11  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00   ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-13  0:00   ` Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-13  0:00     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-13  0:00   ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-13  0:00   ` ak
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Ulrich Windl
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-26  0:00     ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Chris Bitmead
1997-01-08  0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-02  0:00 ` Mike Anderson
1997-01-02  0:00   ` Dale Pontius
1997-01-02  0:00     ` Bill Hunter
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 ` Tim Ottinger
1997-01-08  0:00 ` Paul Eric Menchen
1996-12-31  0:00 Ell
1996-12-31  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-02  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-03  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-07  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-31  0:00 ` clovis
1996-12-31  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-01  0:00     ` Nick Thurn
1997-01-02  0:00 ` Ian Joyner
1997-01-02  0:00   ` David L. Shang
1996-12-28  0:00 Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-28  0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-27  0:00 Ell
1996-12-24  0:00 Ell
1996-12-19  0:00 Ell
1996-12-18  0:00 Ell
1996-12-18  0:00 ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-16  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-12-15  0:00 Ell
1996-12-15  0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-15  0:00 Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-14  0:00 Ell
1996-12-14  0:00 Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-16  0:00 ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-22  0:00 ` Willy
1996-12-24  0:00   ` Fraser Wilson
1996-12-13  0:00 Ell
1996-12-13  0:00 ` drush
1996-12-15  0:00   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-16  0:00       ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-19  0:00     ` Samuel Mize
1996-12-11  0:00 Ell
1996-12-13  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-13  0:00   ` Ronald Servant
1996-12-13  0:00     ` matt
1996-12-13  0:00       ` Dan Stubbs
1996-12-18  0:00     ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-11  0:00 Ell
1996-12-07  0:00 Ell
1996-12-07  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-10  0:00   ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-14  0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-16  0:00   ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-18  0:00       ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-19  0:00         ` Robert C. Martin
     [not found]   ` <01bbeb6f$e2220c40$371883cc@beast.advancedsw.com>
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-17  0:00       ` Roger T.
1996-12-18  0:00         ` Matt Kennel
     [not found]           ` <01bbed37$23deaa80$371883cc@beast.advancedsw.com>
1996-12-19  0:00             ` Matt Kennel
1996-12-19  0:00         ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-18  0:00 ` drush
1996-12-06  0:00 Ell
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-06  0:00 ` H Brett Bolen
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Prashant Gupta
1996-12-14  0:00   ` Chris
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-09  0:00     ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-12  0:00     ` Frederick Sickert
1996-12-06  0:00 Ell
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Thomas Gagne
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Bob Crispen
1996-12-14  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-10  0:00   ` Art Schwarz
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-07  0:00   ` Steve Heller
1996-12-05  0:00 Ell
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Brian Gridley
1996-12-05  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-05  0:00 Ell
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-04  0:00 Ell
1996-12-04  0:00 Ell
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-03  0:00 Ahmed
1996-12-03  0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-03  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Ahmed
1996-12-04  0:00     ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Ahmed
1996-12-06  0:00         ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Jeff Miller
1996-12-06  0:00         ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-14  0:00         ` Chris
1996-12-03  0:00 ` Fred Parker
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Matthew Gream
1996-12-05  0:00   ` Tim Ottinger
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Roger T.
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Joe Winchester
1996-12-05  0:00     ` Russell Corfman
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-04  0:00     ` Dr. Richard Botting
1996-12-05  0:00     ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-05  0:00       ` Marnix Klooster
1996-12-05  0:00       ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-06  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-06  0:00           ` David Bradley
1996-12-08  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-10  0:00             ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-10  0:00             ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-11  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-11  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-11  0:00                 ` Matt Kennel
1996-12-12  0:00                 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-11  0:00             ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Mukesh Prasad
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Roger Vossler
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-10  0:00           ` Roger Vossler
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Don Harrison
1996-12-11  0:00           `  Todd Knarr 
1996-12-11  0:00             ` Alan Meyer
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Ell
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Tom Bushell
     [not found]             ` <58mubr$i <58p5ou$dkm@news3.digex.net>
1996-12-13  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-25  0:00                 ` Weiqi Gao
1996-12-25  0:00                   ` Matthew S. Whiting
1996-12-26  0:00                   ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-12-26  0:00                   ` Bob Jarvis
1996-12-26  0:00                     ` Arthur Gold
     [not found]             ` <32aefdb0..406273038@news.nstn.ca>
1996-12-14  0:00               ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Carl Weidling
1996-12-06  0:00       ` David B. Shapcott [C]
1996-12-05  0:00     ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Ahmed
1996-12-06  0:00     ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Ralph Cook
1996-12-07  0:00         ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-09  0:00           ` Nigel Tzeng
1996-12-12  0:00             ` David Bradley
1996-12-20  0:00               ` Nigel Tzeng
     [not found]         ` <1996Dec7.151850.877@prim.demon.co.uk>
1996-12-08  0:00           ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-14  0:00             ` Kazimir Majorinc
1996-12-14  0:00               ` Jeff Miller
1996-12-16  0:00                 ` David Bradley
1996-12-14  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-15  0:00               ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-15  0:00                 ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-16  0:00                   ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-16  0:00                   ` Bob Kettig
1996-12-15  0:00                 ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Daniel Drasin
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-07  0:00     ` Steve Heller
1996-12-07  0:00       ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-09  0:00         ` Kenneth Mays
1996-12-14  0:00         ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-14  0:00           ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-18  0:00             ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-18  0:00               ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Caitlin
1996-12-15  0:00           ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-17  0:00             ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Ralph Cook
1996-12-19  0:00                 ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-20  0:00                   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-21  0:00                     ` Michael Malak
1996-12-19  0:00                 ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-17  0:00             ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Ralph Cook
1996-12-18  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-17  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-18  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-27  0:00                 ` clovis
1996-12-27  0:00                   ` Tore Lund
1996-12-28  0:00                     ` clovis
1996-12-28  0:00                       ` Tore Lund
1996-12-27  0:00                   ` Jacqueline U. Robertson
1996-12-27  0:00                     ` Tore Lund
1996-12-28  0:00                       ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-28  0:00                         ` Tore Lund
1996-12-31  0:00                         ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-31  0:00                           ` clovis
1996-12-31  0:00                             ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-31  0:00                             ` Neville Black
1997-01-01  0:00                             ` Tom Bushell
1997-01-10  0:00                             ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-10  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00                                 ` Richard Kenner
1997-01-11  0:00                               ` Randy A. Ynchausti
1997-01-12  0:00                               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-31  0:00                           ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-29  0:00                       ` clovis
1996-12-31  0:00                         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-31  0:00                           ` clovis
1997-01-10  0:00                           ` Bart Samwel
1996-12-31  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-01  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-12  0:00                       ` Corey Minyard
1997-01-14  0:00                         ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-13  0:00                       ` Nick Thurn
1996-12-28  0:00                     ` clovis
1996-12-30  0:00                       ` John (Max) Skaller
1996-12-29  0:00                         ` Rosimildo da Silva
1996-12-31  0:00                         ` Ian Joyner
1997-01-03  0:00                       ` markj
1997-01-03  0:00                         ` Natan
1996-12-28  0:00                   ` Stephen Pendleton
1996-12-31  0:00                     ` Edward de Jong
1996-12-31  0:00                       ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-31  0:00                       ` clovis
1997-01-01  0:00                       ` Tore Lund
1997-01-01  0:00                         ` Tore Lund
1996-12-19  0:00               ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-24  0:00             ` Nigel Tzeng
1996-12-26  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-26  0:00                 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-16  0:00           ` Karen A. Morrissey
1996-12-16  0:00             ` Bob Kettig
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-17  0:00             ` David Bradley
1996-12-09  0:00       ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Steve Heller
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Snowball queries
1996-12-12  0:00         ` Samuel S. Shuster
1996-12-12  0:00           ` Dr. Richard Botting
1996-12-13  0:00           ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-16  0:00             ` Samuel S. Shuster
1996-12-16  0:00               ` Bob Kettig
1996-12-16  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-18  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-12-18  0:00                     ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-19  0:00                     ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1996-12-20  0:00                       ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-19  0:00                     ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-23  0:00                       ` David Bradley
1996-12-23  0:00                         ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1996-12-19  0:00                     ` David Bradley
1996-12-20  0:00                       ` Chris Brand
     [not found]                       ` <01bbee11$dcae8460$ca61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1996-12-23  0:00                         ` David Bradley
1996-12-19  0:00                   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-27  0:00                     ` clovis
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-07  0:00     ` Nick Thurn
1996-12-14  0:00       ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-15  0:00         ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-15  0:00           ` Joseph W. Seda
1996-12-16  0:00           ` David Bradley
1996-12-19  0:00           ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-12-15  0:00     ` Damon Feldman
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Steve Heller
1996-12-06  0:00   ` David Bradley
1996-12-13  0:00   ` drush
1996-12-18  0:00   ` Matt Austern
1996-12-19  0:00     ` Risto Lankinen
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-23  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-23  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-26  0:00   ` drush
1996-12-26  0:00   ` drush
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Nick Thurn
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Myles Williams
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Ranjan Bagchi
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Myles Williams
1996-12-07  0:00 ` Kazimir Majorinc
1996-12-14  0:00   ` Chris
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