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From: Ted Dennison <dennison@escmail.orl.lmco.com>
Subject: Re: Ada and Automotive Industry
Date: 1996/12/03
Date: 1996-12-03T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <32A4368E.41C67EA6@escmail.orl.lmco.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3280DA96.15FB@hso.link.com


Chris Hills wrote:
> 
> I could depend on the REAL (as in it had a customer and HAD TO WORK in
> a real environment)  program written in C but we could not depend on
> the same program in Mod2 because the develpoment system was bug
> ridden. In other words the Mod2 program would not perform as the
> language dictated and the program was unsafe.

I'm routinely suprised how bug-ridden REAL (commercial) C programs are.
Most products seem to be shipped with known bugs that apparently the
developers couldn't figure out how to fix. So the user is just expected
to *learn* where the bugs are and avoid those activities that seem to
cause them. What is even more startling is how users will rationalize
this away, yet jump all over Ada whenever it has even *touched* a piece
of equipment that failed.

Of course you are smarter than that, right?

> The Ariane 5 rocket had Ada Sw (a "Safe" language) and crashed after 
> 39 seconds (a bit of a red herring as Ada was not directly to blame 
> and the same could have been done in C or Mod2) SO what is the excuse 
> here? the Sw team did not understand the use of the language? If it is 
> that hard to use and that easy to miss use it is unsafe in practice.

(sigh) I guess not.

Actually, the cited reason was a decision made during
*requirements*analysis*, having nothing whatsover to do with ignorance
or knowledge of any particular language.

Of course even if the problem were what you said, it wouldn't mean much.
ALL software has bugs; C software and Ada software. The point is that if
your primary goal is low-error software, you should choose tools and
methodoligies that are the least error prone, and make it the easiest to
spot (and non-intrusively fix) errors. In this day and age, there is
little doubt as to the relative ranks of C and Ada in this regard. You
must then staff the project with people who know how to properly use the
tools, or it is all for naught. 

-- 
T.E.D.          
             |  Work - mailto:dennison@escmail.orl.lmco.com  |
             |  Home - mailto:dennison@iag.net               |
             |  URL  - http://www.iag.net/~dennison          |




  parent reply	other threads:[~1996-12-03  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 163+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1996-11-01  0:00 Ada and Automotive Industry ETHoierman
1996-11-05  0:00 ` Stanley R. Allen
1996-11-06  0:00 ` Stanley R. Allen
1996-11-06  0:00   ` James Thiele
1996-11-06  0:00     ` Stanley R. Allen
1996-11-07  0:00       ` Dale Stanbrough
1996-11-11  0:00       ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-11  0:00         ` Matthew Heaney
1996-11-11  0:00           ` Philip Brashear
1996-11-11  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-07  0:00     ` Frank Manning
1996-11-11  0:00     ` Frank Manning
1996-11-13  0:00       ` Richard Riehle
1996-11-14  0:00         ` Jack Patteeuw
1996-11-16  0:00           ` David Taylor
1996-11-20  0:00             ` Richard Riehle
1996-11-21  0:00               ` Dave Wood
1996-11-21  0:00             ` Art Schwarz
1996-11-22  0:00               ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-22  0:00               ` Robert B. Love 
1996-11-24  0:00               ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1996-11-18  0:00           ` David Taylor
1996-11-17  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-18  0:00           ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-22  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-22  0:00             ` Richard Kenner
1996-11-23  0:00               ` James Thiele
1996-11-27  0:00                 ` Richard Kenner
1996-12-05  0:00             ` Michael Warner
1996-11-20  0:00           ` Richard Riehle
1996-11-23  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-25  0:00               ` Richard Riehle
1996-11-27  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-27  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-01  0:00                   ` Richard Riehle
1996-11-27  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-29  0:00                   ` Richard Riehle
1996-12-02  0:00                   ` Chris Hills
1996-12-04  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-11-25  0:00               ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-24  0:00             ` Richard Kenner
1996-11-25  0:00               ` Richard Riehle
1996-11-25  0:00               ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-26  0:00                 ` John Dammeyer
1996-11-26  0:00                   ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]           ` <Pine.GSO.3.95.961120154239.3 <Pine.GSO.3.95.961201100430.21598A-100000@nunic.nu.edu>
1996-12-01  0:00             ` James Thiele
1996-11-27  0:00         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-03  0:00           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-12-03  0:00             ` Ted Dennison
1996-12-11  0:00             ` Richard Riehle
1996-12-13  0:00               ` Ted Dennison
1996-11-13  0:00       ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-11  0:00     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-11-14  0:00     ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-15  0:00       ` William P. Milam
1996-11-08  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-08  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-08  0:00     ` James Thiele
1996-11-08  0:00       ` nasser
1996-11-09  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-22  0:00           ` Dirk Dickmanns
1996-11-10  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1996-11-11  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-11  0:00           ` James Thiele
1996-11-12  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-12  0:00       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-11-12  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-13  0:00           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-11-14  0:00         ` William P. Milam
1996-11-19  0:00           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-11-15  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-15  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-16  0:00         ` Adam Beneschan
1996-11-22  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-16  0:00         ` Geert Bosch
1996-11-21  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-11  0:00     ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-11  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-11  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
     [not found]   ` <847341612snz@transcontech.co.uk>
1996-11-10  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-12  0:00       ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1996-11-15  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-15  0:00     ` William P. Milam
1996-11-15  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-18  0:00       ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-18  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-19  0:00         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-12-05  0:00         ` Michael Warner
1996-12-06  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-15  0:00     ` John Howard
1996-11-21  0:00     ` James Weaver
1996-11-21  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-22  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-11-22  0:00   ` Chris Hills
1996-11-23  0:00   ` Ralph Paul
1996-11-24  0:00   ` Otto Lind
1996-11-25  0:00     ` Richard Kenner
1996-11-28  0:00       ` Eyal Ben-Avraham
1996-11-29  0:00         ` Richard Kenner
1996-11-25  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-26  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-11-26  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-11-27  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-11-27  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-01  0:00   ` Chris Hills
1996-12-01  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-01  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-02  0:00     ` Robert A Duff
1996-12-02  0:00   ` Chris Hills
1996-12-03  0:00     ` Andy Ashworth
1996-12-03  0:00       ` Ian Ward
1996-12-03  0:00   ` George Romanski
1996-12-05  0:00     ` Ken Tindell
1996-12-03  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-03  0:00   ` Ted Dennison [this message]
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-11  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-12-13  0:00   ` Ted Dennison
1996-12-13  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-14  0:00   ` Chris Hills
1996-12-19  0:00     ` Ian Ward
1996-12-17  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-12-18  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-19  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-11-11  0:00 James Thiele
1996-11-12  0:00 James Thiele
1996-11-13  0:00 ` Frank Manning
1996-11-13  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-15  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-13  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-12  0:00 James Thiele
1996-11-13  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-11-13  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-24  0:00 Ingemar Persson
1996-11-25  0:00 Ada and automotive industry W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1996-11-27  0:00 Ada and Automotive Industry W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
     [not found] <1996Nov30.130532.522@decus.org.nz>
1996-12-02  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
     [not found] <1996Dec2.221233.523@decus.org.nz>
1996-12-02  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-05  0:00 Franco Mazzanti
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-11  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-12-13  0:00   ` Ted Dennison
1996-12-15  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-17  0:00       ` Tucker Taft
1996-12-18  0:00       ` Robert A Duff
1996-12-18  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-18  0:00           ` Robert A Duff
1996-12-18  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-19  0:00               ` Robert A Duff
1996-12-20  0:00                 ` Philip Brashear
1996-12-20  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-22  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-23  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-18  0:00       ` Geert Bosch
1996-12-18  0:00       ` Keith Thompson
1996-12-18  0:00         ` Keith Thompson
1996-12-17  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-12-10  0:00 Franco Mazzanti
1996-12-11  0:00 Franco Mazzanti
1996-12-11  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-13  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
     [not found] <1996Dec11.220521.525@decus.org.nz>
1996-12-11  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-13  0:00 Franco Mazzanti
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