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From: Alan Brain <aebrain@dynamite.com.au>
Subject: Re: Ariane 5 failure
Date: 1996/10/12
Date: 1996-10-12T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <325F6898.4C31@dynamite.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 325BE79B.7610@sanders.lockheed.com


Steve O'Neill wrote:

> I would have expected that in a mission/safety critical application
> the proper checks would have been implemented, no matter what. And in a
> 'belts-and-suspenders' mode I would also expect an exception handler to
> take care of unforeseen possibilities at the lowest possible level and
> raise things to a higher level only when absolutely necessary.  Had these
> precautions been taken there would probably be lots of entries in an
> error log but the satellites would now be orbiting.

Concur completely. This should be Standard Operating Procedure, a matter
of habit. Frankly, it's just good engineering practice. But is honoured
more in the breach than the observance it seems, because....
 
> As outsiders we can only second guess as to why this approach was not
> taken but the review board implies that 1) the SRI software developers
> had an 80% max utilization requirement and 2) careful consideration
> (including faulty assumptions) was used in deciding what to protect and
> not protect.

... as some very reputable people, working for very reputable firms have
tried to pound into my thick skull, they are used to working with 15%,
no
more, tolerances. And with diamond-grade Hard Real Time slices, where
any
over-run, no matter how slight, means disaster. In this case, Formal
Proof
and strict attention to the no of CPU cycles in all possible paths seems
the only way to go.
But this leaves you so open to error in all but the simplest, most
trivial
tasks, (just the race analysis would be nightmarish) that these slices
had
better be a very small part of the task, or the task itself must be very
simple indeed. Either way, not having much bearing on the vast majority
of
problems I've encountered.
If the tasks are not simple....then can I please ask the firms concerned
to
tell me which aircraft their software is on, so I can take appropriate
action?

----------------------      <> <>    How doth the little Crocodile
| Alan & Carmel Brain|      xxxxx       Improve his shining tail?
| Canberra Australia |  xxxxxHxHxxxxxx _MMMMMMMMM_MMMMMMMMM
---------------------- o OO*O^^^^O*OO o oo     oo oo     oo  
                    By pulling Maerklin Wagons, in 1/220 Scale




  reply	other threads:[~1996-10-12  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <agrapsDy4oJH.29G@netcom.com>
1996-09-25  0:00 ` Ariane 5 failure @@           robin
1996-09-25  0:00   ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-09-26  0:00     ` Ronald Kunne
1996-09-26  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1996-09-27  0:00         ` Wayne Hayes
1996-09-27  0:00           ` Richard Pattis
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Chris McKnight
1996-09-29  0:00               ` Real-world education (was: Ariane 5 failure) Michael Feldman
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Ariane 5 failure Dann Corbit
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Alan Brain
1996-10-01  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27  0:00         ` Ronald Kunne
1996-09-27  0:00           ` Lawrence Foard
1996-10-04  0:00             ` @@           robin
1996-09-28  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-28  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-29  0:00           ` Alan Brain
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Robert A Duff
1996-09-30  0:00               ` Wayne L. Beavers
1996-10-01  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-01  0:00                   ` Wayne L. Beavers
1996-10-01  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-02  0:00                       ` Sandy McPherson
1996-10-03  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-10-01  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-28  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27  0:00       ` Alan Brain
1996-09-28  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-29  0:00       ` Louis K. Scheffer
1996-09-25  0:00   ` Michel OLAGNON
1996-09-25  0:00     ` Byron Kauffman
1996-09-25  0:00       ` A. Grant
1996-09-25  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-26  0:00         ` Sandy McPherson
1996-09-26  0:00         ` Byron Kauffman
1996-09-27  0:00           ` A. Grant
1996-09-25  0:00     ` Chris Morgan
1996-09-27  0:00   ` John McCabe
1996-10-01  0:00     ` Michael Dworetsky
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Steve Bell
1996-10-07  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-09  0:00         ` @@           robin
1996-10-09  0:00           ` Steve O'Neill
1996-10-12  0:00             ` Alan Brain [this message]
1996-10-04  0:00     ` @@           robin
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Michel OLAGNON
1996-10-09  0:00         ` @@           robin
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Joseph C Williams
1996-10-06  0:00         ` Wayne Hayes
1996-10-17  0:00       ` Ralf Tilch
1996-10-17  0:00         ` Ravi Sundaram
1996-10-22  0:00           ` shmuel
1996-10-22  0:00             ` Jim Carr
1996-10-24  0:00               ` hayim
1996-10-25  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-25  0:00                 ` Michel OLAGNON
1996-10-01  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-10-02  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-02  0:00     ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Robert S. White
1996-10-05  0:00         ` Alan Brain
1996-10-06  0:00           ` Robert S. White
1996-10-05  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-03  0:00     ` Alan Brain
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-10-01  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-01  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-04  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-05  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-06  0:00       ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-10  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-14  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-15  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-16  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-18  0:00           ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-18  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-18  0:00             ` Samuel T. Harris
1996-10-21  0:00               ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-23  0:00           ` robin
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-02  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-03  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-03  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-03  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-14  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-15  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-15  0:00   ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-16  0:00     ` Michael F Brenner
1996-10-16  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-23  0:00 ` robin
1996-10-16  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-18  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-19  0:00   ` Frank Manning
1996-10-21  0:00     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-10-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-22  0:00 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-10-28  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-29  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-08  0:00   ` robin
1996-10-28  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-31  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
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