From: "James A. Squire" <m193884@CSEHP3.MDC.COM>
Subject: Re: C is 'better' than Ada because...
Date: 1996/07/19
Date: 1996-07-19T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <31EFA2FF.5FCF@csehp3.mdc.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 31e02c32.342948604@netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov
Sandy McPherson wrote:
> It depends upon which type of large system you wish to implement. Ever
> tried to write an operating system, or a configurable toolkit, which needs
> to use callbacks, in Ada? Yeuch!!! A Motif based GUI? Head for the hills!
Au Contraire, especially in Ada95. With access-to-subprogram variables
and Interfaces.C, the clear choice in my book would be Ada95 every time.
> In these areas C or C++ wins every time. Whether this is a problem of Ada
> as a language is disputable, as these types of systems are traditionally
> the stamping ground of C anyway; however as a great believer in making life
> easy for myself, I would stick to C/C++ in these areas.
As a great believer in making like easy for future maintainers, I find
this shallow reasoning.
> If on the other hand you have a bare chip and need to write a complex
> embedded system, (and you have a GOOD Ada compiler), then Ada is probably a
> better starting point, because there are so many fetures built into the
> language which you have to do manually when coding good C.
There are tons of Ada advocates in this newsgroup quite skilled at
filleting this one into little pieces. I leave it to them. It's not
that what you have said here is patently false, it's the hidden
implications behind it that are bogus - namely, that THAT is ALL Ada is
good for.
> The main advantage that C has over Ada is that the compilers are generally
> very reliable (because of their small size) and produce efficient machine
> code. If you have good PA standards and the correct tools (lint, QAC,
> Purify, to name but a few) you can achieve very good results with C,
> sometimes better than with Ada.
They can also make hash out of this one too. The best I can do is to
say that your implication that C compilers are generally more reliable
than Ada compilers is unsubstantiated in any way.
> The main advantage Ada has over C is its well defined source architecture
> and easily employed data abstraction facilities and the tools which are
> built into the APSE; these have to be built into a good C program, but a
> plonker will bugger this up in Ada as well. Tasking looks like a good idea,
> but the implementations can be weak; in fact most spacecraft control
> systems I have seen implement their own tasking mechanisms, especially
> where they have to respond to hardware interrupts.
1. Very clever. Hypothetically propose an advantage of Ada over C and
then dismiss it by appealing to the universal weakness of human nature.
Human nature is weak, but C gives it a head start over Ada.
2. Tasking may have improved considerably in Ada95. Besides, what
feature of C are you comparing tasking to?
--
James Squire mailto:ja_squire@csehp3.mdc.com
MDA Avionics Tools & Processes
McDonnell Douglas Aerospace http://www.mdc.com/
Opinions expressed here are my own and NOT my company's
"Nice shark...pretty shark..."
-- Londo, "The Gathering"
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1996-07-19 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 272+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1996-06-19 0:00 C is 'better' than Ada because Alan Brain
1996-06-20 0:00 ` Ron Thompson
1996-06-22 0:00 ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-06-22 0:00 ` David Morton
1996-06-22 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-23 0:00 ` The Deviant
1996-06-23 0:00 ` John Winters
1996-06-23 0:00 ` Michael Feldman
1996-06-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-24 0:00 ` token%/etc/HOSTNAME
1996-06-23 0:00 ` John Winters
1996-06-23 0:00 ` David Morton
1996-06-23 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-06-27 0:00 ` ) OH NO "...begs the question..." Ralph Silverman
1996-06-28 0:00 ` Bill Wendling
1996-06-23 0:00 ` C is 'better' than Ada because John Winters
1996-06-23 0:00 ` David Morton
1996-06-30 0:00 ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-06-23 0:00 ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-06-23 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-06-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-28 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-06-29 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-29 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-30 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-07-01 0:00 ` Mike Roske
1996-07-01 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-02 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-03 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-04 0:00 ` Ian Ward
1996-07-05 0:00 ` Peter Amey
1996-07-05 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-10 0:00 ` James A. Squire
1996-07-15 0:00 ` Oliver Kellogg
1996-07-16 0:00 ` Oliver Kellogg
1996-07-18 0:00 ` Fraser Wilson
1996-07-18 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-07-19 0:00 ` Keith Thompson
1996-07-17 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-11 0:00 ` James A. Squire
1996-07-16 0:00 ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-07-16 0:00 ` Mark A Biggar
1996-07-17 0:00 ` James A. Squire
1996-07-17 0:00 ` Laurent Guerby
1996-07-17 0:00 ` David Emery
1996-07-18 0:00 ` James A. Squire
1996-07-07 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-08 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-10 0:00 ` John F. Bode
1996-07-11 0:00 ` Mike Roske
1996-07-10 0:00 ` Peter Hermann
1996-07-15 0:00 ` Tim McGuire
1996-07-16 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-16 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-18 0:00 ` Bob Gilbert
1996-07-19 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-19 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-19 0:00 ` Richard O'Rourke
1996-07-22 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-22 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-23 0:00 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-23 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-24 0:00 ` JamesS1889
1996-07-24 0:00 ` Dirk Dickmanns
1996-07-24 0:00 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-27 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-29 0:00 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-29 0:00 ` Ada is 'better' than C because John Herro
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Franz Kruse
1996-08-04 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-08-05 0:00 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-08-06 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-06 0:00 ` GAFFNEY.BRIAN
1996-08-07 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-08 0:00 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-08-08 0:00 ` Frank Lipski
1996-08-09 0:00 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-08-15 0:00 ` Mike Stark
1996-08-07 0:00 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-08-08 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-08 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-29 0:00 ` C is 'better' than Ada because Dirk Dickmanns
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Dirk Dickmanns
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-08-02 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-08-05 0:00 ` Byron B. Kauffman
1996-08-15 0:00 ` Mike Roske
1996-08-15 0:00 ` David Shochat
1996-08-16 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-16 0:00 ` John Herro
1996-08-16 0:00 ` John Herro
1996-08-16 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-05 0:00 ` Robb Nebbe
1996-08-02 0:00 ` Dirk Dickmanns
1996-07-31 0:00 ` whiting_ms@corning.com (Matt Whiting)
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-08-08 0:00 ` Ada is 'better' than C because William Clodius
1996-08-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-09 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-08-12 0:00 ` OBryan Anthony H
1996-08-12 0:00 ` Bob Kurtz
1996-08-12 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Tom Watson
1996-08-14 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-29 0:00 ` C is 'better' than Ada because system
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-25 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-07-23 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-24 0:00 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-24 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-25 0:00 ` Steve Howard
1996-07-25 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-07-27 0:00 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-07-26 0:00 ` Mike Roske
1996-07-25 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-07-25 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-26 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-07-26 0:00 ` kennedy1
[not found] ` <4rvr2j$2gb0@info4.rus.uni-s <nhn30yhw6t.fsf@paralysys>
1996-07-18 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-26 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-07-08 0:00 ` Ian Ward
1996-07-18 0:00 ` Hamilton Link
1996-07-19 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-08 0:00 ` C is 'better' than Ada ... NOT!! Hugh Dunne
1996-07-08 0:00 ` Frank Manning
1996-07-08 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-12 0:00 ` C is 'better' than Ada because John F. Bode
1996-07-15 0:00 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-07-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-19 0:00 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-20 0:00 ` Michael Feldman
1996-07-21 0:00 ` Alfonso Urdaneta
1996-07-21 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-22 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-22 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-26 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
[not found] ` <31f3c52e.238719470 <Pine.GSO.3.92.960726122347.25896E-100000@nunic.nu.edu>
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Darrin Smith
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk
1996-08-06 0:00 ` Kirk Bradley
1996-08-09 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-08-10 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-16 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-08-18 0:00 ` Craig Franck
[not found] ` <Pine.GSO.3.92.960816102000. <4v5pis$4h1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
1996-08-18 0:00 ` David Weller
1996-08-15 0:00 ` Mike Stark
1996-08-02 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
[not found] ` <31f3c52e.238719470 <4uj42h$j06@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
1996-08-11 0:00 ` Doug & Rose Miller
1996-08-11 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-11 0:00 ` Doug & Rose Miller
1996-08-12 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-16 0:00 ` nasser
1996-08-11 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
[not found] ` <31f3c52e.238719470 <4v5pis$4h1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
1996-08-18 0:00 ` Doug & Rose Miller
1996-08-20 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-07-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-27 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-27 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-07-29 0:00 ` Ian Ward
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Bob Cousins
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-09-05 0:00 ` Bob Cousins
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-14 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-28 0:00 ` Van Snyder
1996-08-14 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-15 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-15 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
1996-08-16 0:00 ` Don Nelson
1996-08-19 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
1996-08-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-28 0:00 ` Van Snyder
1996-08-30 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-08-15 0:00 ` Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund
1996-08-15 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-20 0:00 ` nasser
1996-07-19 0:00 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-08-15 0:00 ` David Weller
1996-08-15 0:00 ` William C Brennan
1996-07-10 0:00 ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-07-10 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-07-18 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1996-07-19 0:00 ` James A. Squire [this message]
1996-07-29 0:00 ` William Clodius
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Byron B. Kauffman
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Ian Ward
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
[not found] ` <9608020139.AA29105@pulsar.telesoft>
1996-08-02 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-05 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-08-06 0:00 ` is Ada 'better' than C? (Was: Re: C is 'better' than Ada because...) Antoine Leca
1996-08-06 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-31 0:00 ` C is 'better' than Ada because Ralph Silverman
1996-07-30 0:00 ` William Clodius
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-08-01 0:00 ` David Wheeler
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Olivier Devuns @pulsar
1996-08-11 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-12 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-12 0:00 ` John Howard
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-14 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-12 0:00 ` James A. Squire
1996-08-12 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-14 0:00 ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-08-14 0:00 ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
[not found] ` <Pine.GS <gwinn-1908961215100001@smc19.ed.ray.com>
1996-08-19 0:00 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-08-11 0:00 ` Ada 95 is a FREE language (was: C is 'better' than Ada because...) Laurent Guerby
1996-08-13 0:00 ` C is 'better' than Ada because Jon S Anthony
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-14 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-08-19 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-20 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-20 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-21 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-27 0:00 ` Valentin Bonnard
1996-07-06 0:00 ` Walter B. Hollman Sr.
1996-07-05 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-07-08 0:00 ` Peter Hermann
1996-07-09 0:00 ` Dirk Dickmanns
1996-07-12 0:00 ` ntxbow
1996-07-15 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-15 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-16 0:00 ` Ian Ward
1996-07-17 0:00 ` Dale Stanbrough
1996-07-23 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-07-29 0:00 ` William Clodius
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Darin Johnson
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-05 0:00 ` Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund
1996-08-16 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
[not found] ` <874508446wnr@t-cubed.demon.co.uk>
1996-06-29 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-07-01 0:00 ` James A. Squire
1996-07-02 0:00 ` Darin Johnson
1996-07-03 0:00 ` If your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails (was Re: C is 'better' than Ada because...) Bruce Clement
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-07-30 0:00 C is 'better' than Ada because Spasmo
[not found] ` <01bb7e29$61e3d260$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com>
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-02 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-08-01 0:00 Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-02 0:00 ` Mark McKinney
1996-08-02 0:00 ` David Bonham
[not found] ` <9608061851.AA17508@camo.brc.shell.com>
1996-08-06 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-01 0:00 William Clodius
1996-08-03 0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-05 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-08-05 0:00 ` Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund
1996-08-05 0:00 ` William Clodius
1996-08-04 0:00 @#$%!?!
[not found] <Pine.GSO.>
[not found] ` <4 <4vb399$kt8@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
1996-08-20 0:00 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-08-20 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-21 0:00 ` Mike Roske
1996-08-21 0:00 ` William C Brennan
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