From: Darius Blasbans <darius@phidani.be>
To: "Clark L. Coleman" <clc5q@mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation)
Date: 1996/06/11
Date: 1996-06-11T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <31BDA3F5.596B@phidani.be> (raw)
In-Reply-To: DsA0rM.2F4@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Clark L. Coleman wrote:
>
> I have 15 years industrial software engineering experience on a variety
> of projects in a variety of software engineering environments at 4
> companies. The people who claim to be from industry and have posted
> on this subject have been really disappointing. I shudder to think that
> someone is paying them to develop code if they really think you add
> comments after the code is written.
You made a point here. Comments must be part of the code production process.
> Among the amazingly bogus statements made in this discussion was the
> declaration that any comment indicates that your language was not
> expressive enough, and hence you would ideally have no comments. This
> is surely the most ignorant statement ever made about the subject.
Please excuse me for not feeling concerned about the 'ignorant' adjective,
but I kind of disagree with you here. We try to promote an approach where
comments should be formal as far as possible, hence, executable. Assertions
(pre and post-conditions, etc...) are often understood as a quality insurance
feature, while we consider it as a way for the code to express the implicit
knowledge he (or she) has about how things are supposed to happen in
a formal, standardized, and executable way.
On the other hand, if one uses a Tree of components, using a language
with well-designed genericity, is there anything to comment, really,
about having an object:
Data: Tree(Records);
I truly believe that higher level languages do contribute to fewer
comments. It is true that if you have a unification algorithm coded
in C++, it must be commented. It is also true that if you use
unification in a language where it is a built-in primitive (consider
Prolog, for instance), how much is there to comment ? Unless you are
of the "i++; /* increment i */" kind of guy.
> If you have not worked on truly large projects that were proven to
> be maintainable by others after you were finished; if you have not
> worked on dozens of software engineers / hundreds of thousands of
> lines of code projects; if you don't understand what "stepwise refinement"
> really means; if you think programming consists of sketching out an
> algorithm on a sheet of paper and then coding; PLEASE do not waste
> net bandwidth replying to this message. Get an education and some real
> experience first.
I guess it would be childish to compare our experience, trying to convince
each other that "I know the real thing". Lots of big projects are developed
in a pretty foolish way. Huge projects are written with huge amounts of
documentation and comments, and still fail to deliver.
Regards,
Darius
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1996-06-11 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 216+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <4adem2$b5s@mercury.IntNet.net>
[not found] ` <4ahka7$o9m@inrou.erno.de>
1996-05-13 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Roger Merritt
1996-05-14 0:00 ` David Priest
1996-05-14 0:00 ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-15 0:00 ` Graham Perkins
1996-05-15 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Pete Becker
1996-05-14 0:00 ` Keith Whittingham
1996-05-14 0:00 ` Dr S.J. Harris
1996-05-15 0:00 ` Gerolf Wendland
1996-05-16 0:00 ` mAg
1996-05-17 0:00 ` Arne W Flones
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Norman L. Reitzel
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-22 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-05-22 0:00 ` Slander (was: Hungarian notation) Graham Perkins
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1996-05-22 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Matt Kennel
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-22 0:00 ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Andy Ho-Fan Chan
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Janus
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-05-31 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31 0:00 ` Commenting (was Re: Hungarian notation) Alan Bowler
1996-05-31 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-03 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-06-01 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Warren Young
1996-06-01 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-06-03 0:00 ` Warren Young
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-30 0:00 ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-31 0:00 ` Will Rose
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-01 0:00 ` Heinz Hemken
1996-06-02 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-02 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-27 0:00 ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-28 0:00 ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Comments was: " Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-30 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
[not found] ` <4odgjh$6o@carrera.intergate.bc.ca>
1996-05-28 0:00 ` try to run this! - try_me.exe [3/4] Otmar Conradus
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31 0:00 ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Clark L. Coleman
1996-06-03 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-06-15 0:00 ` Train
1996-06-18 0:00 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-06-18 0:00 ` David Zink
1996-06-19 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-23 0:00 ` David Zink
1996-06-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-28 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-28 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-11 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-11 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-12 0:00 ` steidl
1996-07-12 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-12 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-06-29 0:00 ` steidl
1996-06-29 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-06-20 0:00 ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hun Ian Ward
1996-06-05 0:00 ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Peter Moylan
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Mike Fulton
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Steve Howard
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Shane Badham
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Steve Sobol
1996-06-14 0:00 ` Re-designing CS (long) (Was: Re: The Last Word on Comments) Warren Young
1996-06-21 0:00 ` Re-designing CS (long) Warren Young
1996-06-24 0:00 ` Brian J. Quandt
1996-06-06 0:00 ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-08 0:00 ` Bill Hay
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Derek Lee Beatty
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Kevin J. Weise
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-12 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-17 0:00 ` James McKim
1996-06-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Darius Blasbans [this message]
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06 0:00 ` David Hopkins
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-06-10 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-12 0:00 ` Warren Young
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Hungarian notation (an aside) Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Sam Hunting
1996-06-11 0:00 ` I wish it was "The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation)" Blair MacIntyre
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Robert Dewar
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-25 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-25 0:00 ` Hungarian notation: the thread of choice for consummate boors The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Ken Nicolson
[not found] ` <HFsHoD96w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Jon Hornstein
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-06 0:00 ` James McKim
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-26 0:00 ` Warren Young
1996-06-03 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-06-10 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-18 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-23 0:00 ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Paul J. Kossick
1996-05-25 0:00 ` Raoul De Kezel
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Laurent Guerby
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Please keep Hungarian notation thread OUT of comp.lang.modula3 Tim Mann
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Ralph Silverman
1996-06-05 0:00 ` jthorpe
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07 0:00 ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-06-10 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Chris Engebretson
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-12 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-06-12 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-06-22 0:00 ` Richard Green
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Will Rose
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Chris Kuan
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-14 0:00 ` Dave Mikesell
1996-05-14 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-14 0:00 ` Pete Becker
[not found] ` <4ndb2j$1p0q@uni.library.ucla.edu>
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Mark Chu-Carroll
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1996-05-17 0:00 ` Scott
1996-05-23 0:00 ` G.O.Visser
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Steve Branam
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Scott
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-05-18 0:00 ` Warren Young
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Dave Toland
1996-05-21 0:00 ` mAg
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-24 0:00 ` slary61
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Jerry Kuch
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Dave Toland
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1996-05-26 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Warren Young
1996-06-03 0:00 ` Eva
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Paul D. DeRocco
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Ian Ward
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Norman L. Reitzel
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-01 0:00 ` Michael Feldman
1996-05-29 0:00 ` AJ Musgrove
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Train
1996-05-23 0:00 ` jeffos2
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Mark A Biggar
1996-05-21 0:00 ` slary61
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Oleg Kagan
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-23 0:00 ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Homonnai Misi
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1996-05-20 0:00 ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-20 0:00 ` Tom Wheeley
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-22 0:00 ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23 0:00 ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
1996-06-01 0:00 ` Jim Kingdon
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