* Re: Now Unix sucks, too! [not found] <9603151509.AA01824@eight-ball> @ 1996-03-15 0:00 ` Bob Kitzberger 1996-03-17 0:00 ` Bob Crispen 1996-03-18 0:00 ` Byron B. Kauffman 1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Bob Kitzberger @ 1996-03-15 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Bob Crispen (revbob@EIGHT-BALL.HV.BOEING.COM) wrote: : Jay Martin <jmartin@CS.UCLA.EDU> sez: [...] : > I am having trouble thinking of a : >standard Unix utility that is not a total misdesigned piece of crap! : >Maybe someone can help me. : No, I don't think so, Jay. I suggest you cherish your prejudices and : every now and then bring them out to polish them. Pretty much what : you're doing now. : The *real* reason I wrote is to say that I use Makefiles pretty : extensively with Ada. I don't have a top-ten list of reasons, but I : do have three: Yes, I understand that make has its uses, but that doesn't mean that Jay is wrong in claiming that it's a misdesigned POC ;-) -- Bob Kitzberger Rational Software Corporation rlk@rational.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Now Unix sucks, too! 1996-03-15 0:00 ` Now Unix sucks, too! Bob Kitzberger @ 1996-03-17 0:00 ` Bob Crispen 1996-03-18 0:00 ` dcw 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Bob Crispen @ 1996-03-17 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) rlk@nubuddy (Bob Kitzberger) wrote: >Yes, I understand that make has its uses, but that doesn't mean >that Jay is wrong in claiming that it's a misdesigned POC ;-) Now just wait, I say wait, a dogbone minute there, boy. (Remember the last time I started a post out that way and the idiocy it contained? Well you ain't seen nothin' yet!) make is a TRADITION! It's like not having the dashes in tar or the syntax of sed and awk. Dang! Without SOME traditions there'd be no need for a priesthood! This younger generation! No respect for traditional values! Bob Crispen crispen@hiwaay.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Now Unix sucks, too! 1996-03-17 0:00 ` Bob Crispen @ 1996-03-18 0:00 ` dcw 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: dcw @ 1996-03-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <4ii4pl$9ga@parlor.hiwaay.net>, Bob Crispen <crispen@hiwaay.net> wrote: >rlk@nubuddy (Bob Kitzberger) wrote: > >>Yes, I understand that make has its uses, but that doesn't mean >>that Jay is wrong in claiming that it's a misdesigned POC ;-) > >Now just wait, I say wait, a dogbone minute there, boy. (Remember the >last time I started a post out that way and the idiocy it contained? >Well you ain't seen nothin' yet!) > >make is a TRADITION! It's like not having the dashes in tar or the >syntax of sed and awk. Dang! Without SOME traditions there'd be no >need for a priesthood! > >This younger generation! No respect for traditional values! > >Bob Crispen >crispen@hiwaay.net > > Putting a somewhat more serious spin on what Bob said, it is well to remember that make has been around for quite some time and was a piece of breakthrough technology at its inception. (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) David Willett Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T's systems & technology business) Greensboro, NC USA The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of Lucent Technologies or AT&T Corp. William Safire's Rules for Writers Number two: The passive voice should never be used. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Now Unix sucks, too! [not found] <9603151509.AA01824@eight-ball> 1996-03-15 0:00 ` Now Unix sucks, too! Bob Kitzberger @ 1996-03-18 0:00 ` Byron B. Kauffman 1996-03-19 0:00 ` DEC Ada on DEC Unix Larry Kilgallen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Byron B. Kauffman @ 1996-03-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Bob Crispen wrote: > > Jay Martin <jmartin@CS.UCLA.EDU> sez: > blah, blah, snip, snip I've been doing the Ada thing for about 8 years or so, with 6 or 7 of the 8 years spent working on DEC/VMS/Open VMS development systems for VAX and 68040 targets, with the remainder (and currently) being in UNIX environments - Harris HAPSE and SGI/VERDIX, to be exact. I realize making this statement may disqualify me from ever deserving the official title of 'Mr. Embedded Software Engineer', but I guess I just got spoiled by DEC, because I'm having a really hard time getting used to the overall 'hackiness' of the UNIX way of life and the fact that that same philosophy permeates the UNIX Ada products I've been exposed to (admittedly, a short list). My current situation is that are currently porting an EXTREMLY large piece of Ada (~4000 program units) to an SGI machine. Here's my "rhetorical" question - why can't the UNIX Ada development systems (with the obvious exception of the Rational Rose/APEX/etc. products) come up with something as good as DEC's? Why should I, for example, have to create make files that refer to other make files because there happen to be too many source files in my system, or even better yet, have to compile all 4000 source files into one library because the linker has problems resolving generics between libraries? My source code is Ada, but from the outside it REALLY looks like C, if you know what I mean. (OMIGOSH!!! Maybe it's a C conspiracy against the evil Ada world!!!). Not. I just think that some of these other houses should take a long look at DEC's. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* DEC Ada on DEC Unix 1996-03-18 0:00 ` Byron B. Kauffman @ 1996-03-19 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen 1996-03-21 0:00 ` Keith Hyman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Larry Kilgallen @ 1996-03-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <314D7065.40CF@lfwc.lockheed.com>, "Byron B. Kauffman" <KauffmanBB@lfwc.lockheed.com> writes: > I've been doing the Ada thing for about 8 years or so, with 6 or 7 of > the 8 years spent working on DEC/VMS/Open VMS development systems for > VAX and 68040 targets, with the remainder (and currently) being in UNIX > environments - Harris HAPSE and SGI/VERDIX, to be exact. > My current situation is that are currently porting an EXTREMLY large > piece of Ada (~4000 program units) to an SGI machine. Here's my > "rhetorical" question - why can't the UNIX Ada development systems (with > the obvious exception of the Rational Rose/APEX/etc. products) come up > with something as good as DEC's? So how does DEC Ada do on DEC Unix ? Supposedly it is comes from the same code base. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: DEC Ada on DEC Unix 1996-03-19 0:00 ` DEC Ada on DEC Unix Larry Kilgallen @ 1996-03-21 0:00 ` Keith Hyman 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Keith Hyman @ 1996-03-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > In article <314D7065.40CF@lfwc.lockheed.com>, "Byron B. Kauffman" <KauffmanBB@lfwc.lockheed.com> writes: > > > I've been doing the Ada thing for about 8 years or so, with 6 or 7 of > > the 8 years spent working on DEC/VMS/Open VMS development systems for > > VAX and 68040 targets, with the remainder (and currently) being in UNIX > > environments - Harris HAPSE and SGI/VERDIX, to be exact. > > > My current situation is that are currently porting an EXTREMLY large > > piece of Ada (~4000 program units) to an SGI machine. Here's my > > "rhetorical" question - why can't the UNIX Ada development systems (with > > the obvious exception of the Rational Rose/APEX/etc. products) come up > > with something as good as DEC's? > So how does DEC Ada do on DEC Unix ? > > Supposedly it is comes from the same code base. > So how does DEC Ada do on DEC Unix ? > Supposedly it is comes from the same code base With some bugs... The version of Dec Ada for Ultrix that I used ate up 4k of RAM for every open and close of a disk file. At one point we lost 1.25 MB a day. This problem was known within DEC but not advertised or published to my knowledge. Eventually, we were forwarded the instructions on how to fix the ported LOW_LEVEL_IO.ada module. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1996-03-21 0:00 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <9603151509.AA01824@eight-ball> 1996-03-15 0:00 ` Now Unix sucks, too! Bob Kitzberger 1996-03-17 0:00 ` Bob Crispen 1996-03-18 0:00 ` dcw 1996-03-18 0:00 ` Byron B. Kauffman 1996-03-19 0:00 ` DEC Ada on DEC Unix Larry Kilgallen 1996-03-21 0:00 ` Keith Hyman
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