C++ on the Down Slope?

C++ on the Down Slope?

[Charles H. Sampson]

     According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++
skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year.  Could this be an
indication that the enemy is faltering?

     No, there's no indication of how they came up with 488,992.

                        Charlie
-- 
Nobody in this country got rich on his own.  You built a factory--good.
But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for.  You hired workers we
all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory.
But take a hunk and pay it forward.  Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased)

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Dmitry A. Kazakov]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:08:12 -0800, Charles H. Sampson wrote:

>      According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++
> skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year.

One probably should count C, C++, C#, D(?) together.

> Could this be an
> indication that the enemy is faltering?

Enemy? There is a huge growing pool of bad languages. If C++ ceased to
exist there would always be another to fill its place. People like to
invent and use bad languages.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Martin]

On Jan 11, 8:24 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de>
wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:08:12 -0800, Charles H. Sampson wrote:
> >      According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++
> > skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year.
>
> One probably should count C, C++, C#, D(?) together.

Never understood the inclusion of C# as a member of the 'C/C++'
family...besides the "{" & "}" syntax, the semantics seems rather
different...

-- Martin

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Dmitry A. Kazakov]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 00:50:14 -0800 (PST), Martin wrote:

> On Jan 11, 8:24�am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de>
> wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:08:12 -0800, Charles H. Sampson wrote:
>>> � � �According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++
>>> skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year.
>>
>> One probably should count C, C++, C#, D(?) together.
> 
> Never understood the inclusion of C# as a member of the 'C/C++'
> family...besides the "{" & "}" syntax, the semantics seems rather
> different...

The crowd choosing C# now would likely chose C++ before. Both respond to
the same attitude to programming.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Martin]

On Jan 11, 10:29 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de>
wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 00:50:14 -0800 (PST), Martin wrote:
> > On Jan 11, 8:24 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de>
> > wrote:
> >> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:08:12 -0800, Charles H. Sampson wrote:
> >>> According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++
> >>> skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year.
>
> >> One probably should count C, C++, C#, D(?) together.
>
> > Never understood the inclusion of C# as a member of the 'C/C++'
> > family...besides the "{" & "}" syntax, the semantics seems rather
> > different...
>
> The crowd choosing C# now would likely chose C++ before. Both respond to
> the same attitude to programming.

Maybe...but there are those that moved from C->Java but you wouldn't
include them and it have curly-brackets and seems more similar to C#
than C++...

C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just
can't...

-- Martin

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Dmitry A. Kazakov]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 03:50:43 -0800 (PST), Martin wrote:

> On Jan 11, 10:29�am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de>
> wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 00:50:14 -0800 (PST), Martin wrote:
>>> On Jan 11, 8:24 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:08:12 -0800, Charles H. Sampson wrote:
>>>>> According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++
>>>>> skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year.
>>
>>>> One probably should count C, C++, C#, D(?) together.
>>
>>> Never understood the inclusion of C# as a member of the 'C/C++'
>>> family...besides the "{" & "}" syntax, the semantics seems rather
>>> different...
>>
>> The crowd choosing C# now would likely chose C++ before. Both respond to
>> the same attitude to programming.
> 
> Maybe...but there are those that moved from C->Java but you wouldn't
> include them and it have curly-brackets and seems more similar to C#
> than C++...

I think that Java was different. It was never thought as a general purpose
language. Would-be-C people were rather opposed to it. C# managed to gain a
wider acceptance among them.

> C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just
> can't...

I group people, not languages. If you miraculously removed C++, they would
not run for Ada. If they are running from C++ now, then it is for
something worse than C++. C++ had some brighter concepts, which is why it
never managed to push C aside. There is no decline of C, I suppose.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Georg Bauhaus]

On 11.01.12 12:50, Martin wrote:

> C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just
> can't...

Part of the reason why C# is sometimes counted among the
nominal C languages is deliberate, I think: choosing the letter
C blends optimally with Microsoft's language marketing initiatives.
They have always known how to attract by assimilating popular ideas
into their offerings.  Popularity correlates with an increase in
likelihood of programmers taking curly braces for a sign of
C quality.

The reason that Netscape's browser based Lisp was named
Javascript and the reason why it is using C style syntax,
too, is similar; that's a fact insofar as some Netscape official
once explained it this way, though I haven't got a link handy, sorry.

Suppose A# wouldn't have all this 'Ref nonsense... :-)

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Martin]

On Jan 11, 1:26 pm, Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauh...@futureapps.de>
wrote:
> On 11.01.12 12:50, Martin wrote:
>
> > C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just
> > can't...
>
> Part of the reason why C# is sometimes counted among the
> nominal C languages is deliberate, I think: choosing the letter
> C blends optimally with Microsoft's language marketing initiatives.
> They have always known how to attract by assimilating popular ideas
> into their offerings.  Popularity correlates with an increase in
> likelihood of programmers taking curly braces for a sign of
> C quality.
>
> The reason that Netscape's browser based Lisp was named
> Javascript and the reason why it is using C style syntax,
> too, is similar; that's a fact insofar as some Netscape official
> once explained it this way, though I haven't got a link handy, sorry.
>
> Suppose A# wouldn't have all this 'Ref nonsense... :-)


Anyone for Cada?...

#define { begin
#define } end;

and away we go!!! :-)

-- Martin

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Bill Findlay]

On 11/01/2012 14:26, in article
2a3f7ec1-d3a3-4d2d-a20e-fc9dc7455121@o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com, "Martin"
<martin@thedowies.com> wrote:

> On Jan 11, 1:26�pm, Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauh...@futureapps.de>
> wrote:
>> On 11.01.12 12:50, Martin wrote:
>> 
>>> C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just
>>> can't...
>> 
>> Part of the reason why C# is sometimes counted among the
>> nominal C languages is deliberate, I think: choosing the letter
>> C blends optimally with Microsoft's language marketing initiatives.
>> They have always known how to attract by assimilating popular ideas
>> into their offerings. �Popularity correlates with an increase in
>> likelihood of programmers taking curly braces for a sign of
>> C quality.
>> 
>> The reason that Netscape's browser based Lisp was named
>> Javascript and the reason why it is using C style syntax,
>> too, is similar; that's a fact insofar as some Netscape official
>> once explained it this way, though I haven't got a link handy, sorry.
>> 
>> Suppose A# wouldn't have all this 'Ref nonsense... :-)
> 
> 
> Anyone for Cada?...
> 
> #define { begin
> #define } end;
> 
> and away we go!!! :-)

The original Bourne shell was written in pseudo-Algol 68, using exactly that
'technique', but going in the opposite direction:

#define begin {
#define end   }

No, really.

-- 
Bill Findlay
with blueyonder.co.uk;
use  surname & forename;

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Martin]

On Jan 11, 4:28 pm, Bill Findlay <yaldni...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11/01/2012 14:26, in article
> 2a3f7ec1-d3a3-4d2d-a20e-fc9dc7455...@o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com, "Martin"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <mar...@thedowies.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 11, 1:26 pm, Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauh...@futureapps.de>
> > wrote:
> >> On 11.01.12 12:50, Martin wrote:
>
> >>> C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just
> >>> can't...
>
> >> Part of the reason why C# is sometimes counted among the
> >> nominal C languages is deliberate, I think: choosing the letter
> >> C blends optimally with Microsoft's language marketing initiatives.
> >> They have always known how to attract by assimilating popular ideas
> >> into their offerings.  Popularity correlates with an increase in
> >> likelihood of programmers taking curly braces for a sign of
> >> C quality.
>
> >> The reason that Netscape's browser based Lisp was named
> >> Javascript and the reason why it is using C style syntax,
> >> too, is similar; that's a fact insofar as some Netscape official
> >> once explained it this way, though I haven't got a link handy, sorry.
>
> >> Suppose A# wouldn't have all this 'Ref nonsense... :-)
>
> > Anyone for Cada?...
>
> > #define { begin
> > #define } end;
>
> > and away we go!!! :-)
>
> The original Bourne shell was written in pseudo-Algol 68, using exactly that
> 'technique', but going in the opposite direction:
>
> #define begin {
> #define end   }
>
> No, really.


!!    :-O

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Maciej Sobczak]

On Jan 11, 11:29 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de>
wrote:

> The crowd choosing C# now would likely chose C++ before. Both respond to
> the same attitude to programming.

Nonsense.

C# is "Java done right by Microsoft" (whatever "right" means here) and
its main points of attraction are strong emphasis on OO, reference-
semantics and garbage collection.
Interestingly, Java and C# are so much similar to each other that you
can often just take a Java project and literally recode it line-to-
line into C#. In many cases even the standard library functions are
the same and differ only in casing.
I've seen it happen, it's not a joke.

C++ is very much opposed to these two with its value-semantics, no
push towards OO and no garbage collection. In this regard C++ is much
closer to Ada than to Java/C#.

I understand that you wish to see C++ as your enemy, but please create
another enemy category for it and don't mix it with C#. Or Java.

--
Maciej Sobczak * http://www.msobczak.com * http://www.inspirel.com

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Maciej Sobczak]

On Jan 11, 8:08 am, csamp...@inetworld.net (Charles H. Sampson) wrote:

>      According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++
> skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year.

Skills don't disappear. There is something wrong with this stats.

> Could this be an
> indication that the enemy is faltering?

C++ is not your enemy. If you think so, you are going nowhere.
Your real enemy is every language that promises untrained coders to be
successful.

--
Maciej Sobczak * www.msobczak.com * www.inspirel.com

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Martin]

On Jan 11, 9:00 am, Maciej Sobczak <see.my.homep...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 11, 8:08 am, csamp...@inetworld.net (Charles H. Sampson) wrote:
>
> >      According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++
> > skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year.
>
> Skills don't disappear. There is something wrong with this stats.

People do - they leave linkedin/change jobs (engineer => manager).

-- Martin

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Maciej Sobczak]

On Jan 11, 10:10 am, Martin <mar...@thedowies.com> wrote:

> > >      According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++
> > > skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year.
>
> > Skills don't disappear. There is something wrong with this stats.
>
> People do - they leave linkedin/change jobs (engineer => manager).

So you think that these stats indicate that C++ programmers become
managers.
Then:

1. Don't you think that learning C++ is a good career milestone?

2. Do you *really* think that your "enemy" is disappearing this way?

Big smiley for both questions. ;-)

--
Maciej Sobczak * http://www.msobczak.com * http://www.inspirel.com

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Martin]

On Jan 12, 11:45 am, Maciej Sobczak <see.my.homep...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 11, 10:10 am, Martin <mar...@thedowies.com> wrote:
>
> > > >      According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++
> > > > skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year.
>
> > > Skills don't disappear. There is something wrong with this stats.
>
> > People do - they leave linkedin/change jobs (engineer => manager).
>
> So you think that these stats indicate that C++ programmers become
> managers.
> Then:
>
> 1. Don't you think that learning C++ is a good career milestone?
>
> 2. Do you *really* think that your "enemy" is disappearing this way?
>
> Big smiley for both questions. ;-)


Smiley back :-)

C++ isn't my enemy...I use it everyday...just not through choice! ;-)

Perhaps they aren't all becoming managers, perhaps I should have
written (engineer => burger flipper)!!

More smiley's apply...

-- Martin

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Martin Krischik]

Am Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2012 10:00:23 UTC+1 schrieb Maciej Sobczak:

> Skills don't disappear. There is something wrong with this stats.

They do: Those how posses them might stop advertising them on there CV. Or reach pension age.

Martin

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Martin Dowie]

Charles H. Sampson <csampson@inetworld.net> wrote:
> According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++
> skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year.  Could this be an
> indication that the enemy is faltering?
> 
>      No, there's no indication of how they came up with 488,992.
> 
>                         Charlie

No, that's mirrored by
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html and
http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/.

A lot of this seems to be driven by iPad / iOS with Objective-C being the
'winner'.

-- Martin
-- 
-- Sent from my iPad

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Gautier write-only]

On 11 jan, 13:32, Martin Dowie <mar...@re.mo.ve.thedowies.com> wrote:

> No, that's mirrored by
> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

You even have the historical chart by clicking on the language in the
table:
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/paperinfo/tpci/C__.html

> and
> http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/.
On this index, it went down from 8.9% in April 2010 to 5.6% in January
2012.
_________________________
Gautier's Ada programming
http://gautiersblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Ada
NB: follow the above link for a valid e-mail address

Re: C++ on the Down Slope?

[Martin Krischik]

Am Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2012 13:32:41 UTC+1 schrieb Martin Dowie:

> http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/.

COBOL is not “general-purpose” — how come?

Martin