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From: nagle@well.sf.ca.us (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: chief programmer team organizations was (c++ vs ada results)
Date: 24 Jun 91 18:29:16 GMT	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <25649@well.sf.ca.us> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1991Jun23.032353.8718@netcom.COM

jls@netcom.COM (Jim Showalter) writes:

>>     Real chief programmer teams are very rare. I've never heard of one
>>other than in Brooks' book.

>Given your description below, I don't find this surprising, since I
>find it impossible. Read on.

>>It's organized like a surgical team.  The chief
>>programmer personally writes most of the delivered code, and everything else
>            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>is set up to facilitate this.

>Tommyrot! How on earth is a single human being going to write "most",
>or, for that matter, even a FRACTION, of the code on a project of
>significant size? I'm talking here of things like the multi-MILLION
>line FAA rewrite of the U.S. air traffic control system. No, what is
>needed is a single architect (or at least a very small number of
>architects on a tightly focused team) who set up the groundrules for
>the overall system. After that, a horde of implementors can hammer
>out the individual subsystems.

      There's a school of thought that if you're writing something that big,
your approach is wrong, and you need to develop some abstraction that makes
the job smaller and moves most of the specifics into some kind of database.

      But what Brooks was talking about was a job of the size of an
operating system kernel, a compiler, or a typical shrink-wrapped
application.  Many such jobs are something a single person could write
with adequate support; examples of each of the above written by individuals
exist.  There are also examples of each of the above written by large
teams, of course.  

      With respect to the FAA application, it's entirely possible that
the whole system will be obsoleted by something that has most of the
smarts in the airplanes, perhaps a successor to ACAS with GPS inputs.
Articles in Aviation Leak indicate that distributed systems are being
worked on, especially for Europe, where cross-border ATC isn't well
integrated.

				John Nagle

  parent reply	other threads:[~1991-06-24 18:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 79+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1991-06-12 16:47 c++ vs ada results alan dare
1991-06-12 19:15 ` Paul Martz
1991-06-12 20:17 ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-13 20:49   ` Paul Kohlmiller
1991-06-13 23:12     ` Bruce Jones
1991-06-14 17:56   ` GNU c++ bashing (was Re: c++ vs ada results) Eli Brandt
1991-06-16  2:48   ` c++ vs ada results Russ Nelson
1991-06-16  4:10   ` Sean Eric Fagan
1991-06-18  4:17     ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-18  8:33       ` Sean Eric Fagan
1991-06-18 21:53         ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-18 12:28       ` Mats Henricson
1991-06-18 22:06         ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-19 15:07           ` Dan Weinreb
1991-06-19 17:00           ` Doug Smith
1991-06-20 14:08             ` Steve Juneau
1991-06-20 19:56               ` Robert I. Eachus
1991-06-21 17:27                 ` David M Geary
1991-06-20 22:09               ` Paul Stachour
1991-06-21 17:03                 ` David M Geary
1991-06-23  3:14                   ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-26 22:13                 ` Dan Weinreb
1991-06-21 22:01               ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-20 14:35             ` chief programmer team organizations was (c++ vs ada results) Alex Blakemore
1991-06-21 12:40               ` chief programmer team organizations was (c++ vs ada results)H house ron
1991-06-21 15:47                 ` chief programmer team organizations Joseph Beckenbach {Adapter Software Release Engr}
1991-06-21 22:25                 ` chief programmer team organizations was (c++ vs ada results)H Jim Showalter
1991-06-26 22:18                   ` Dan Weinreb
1991-06-21 22:04               ` chief programmer team organizations was (c++ vs ada results) Lars P. Fischer
1991-06-23  3:17                 ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-24 13:23                 ` Jim Hargrove
1991-06-21 22:21               ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-22  2:14               ` John Nagle
1991-06-23  3:23                 ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-23 13:21                   ` David Feustel
1991-06-23 18:54                     ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-27 15:30                     ` Dan Weinreb
1991-06-24  4:00                   ` Marco S Hyman
1991-06-24 20:23                     ` Stanley Friesen
1991-06-26  0:37                       ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-24 20:29                     ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-24 18:29                   ` John Nagle [this message]
1991-06-25 18:38                     ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-25 19:30                       ` Christopher Warack
1991-06-25 20:06                     ` chief programmer team organizations John Baldwin
1991-06-24  9:36                 ` chief programmer team organizations was (c++ vs ada results) George C. Harrison, Norfolk State University
1991-06-25 13:42                   ` Harry Erwin
1991-06-26 16:15                 ` Bob Martin
1991-06-19 18:36           ` c++ vs ada results Jim Showalter
1991-06-19 15:01         ` Dan Weinreb
1991-06-24  2:29         ` Andrew Dunstan
1991-06-24 10:06           ` David Emery
1991-06-24 13:16           ` Mats Henricson
1991-06-25  4:29           ` Tom McClory
1991-06-26  0:35             ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-26  1:26             ` Andrew Dunstan
1991-06-26 22:47               ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-27 15:47                 ` Alex Blakemore
1991-06-27 23:58                   ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-25 19:27           ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-23 23:59       ` CBW Consulting
1991-06-24 20:11         ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-12 21:27 ` Dan L. Pierson
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1991-06-24 23:59 chief programmer team organizations was (c++ vs ada results) Chuck Shotton
1991-06-26  0:56 ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-26  8:35   ` Orville R. Weyrich
1991-06-27 15:39   ` David M Geary
1991-06-28  0:10     ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-28 16:06       ` David M Geary
1991-06-27 19:37   ` Dan Weinreb
1991-06-25 14:40 John McHugh
1991-06-26  5:19 Chuck Shotton
1991-06-26 17:00 Jim ADCOCK
1991-07-03  1:48 Jim Showalter
1991-07-03  3:09 Michael Feldman
1991-07-03  3:11 Michael Feldman
1991-07-03 16:10 gdtltr@limbo.org (The Befuddled One)
1991-07-04 14:49 Ralph Reid III
1991-07-12 14:01 cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!mstr!mstr!jcm
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