* Another article involving Ada on /.
@ 2004-06-28 19:48 Mark Lorenzen
2004-06-28 22:03 ` Xenos
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mark Lorenzen @ 2004-06-28 19:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
Here: http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/04/06/28/170245.shtml?tid=126&tid=156&tid=172
The usual hacker-comments on Ada are also present in the
discussion. If anyone has /. mod-points left for today, please do your
duty now ;-)
Regards,
- Mark Lorenzen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Another article involving Ada on /.
2004-06-28 19:48 Another article involving Ada on / Mark Lorenzen
@ 2004-06-28 22:03 ` Xenos
2004-06-28 23:04 ` Björn Persson
2004-06-28 23:24 ` Mark Lorenzen
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Xenos @ 2004-06-28 22:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
"Mark Lorenzen" <mark.lorenzen@ofir.dk> wrote in message
news:m3pt7jpiq1.fsf@0x5358cece.boanxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk...
> Here:
http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/04/06/28/170245.shtml?tid=126&tid=156&tid=172
>
> The usual hacker-comments on Ada are also present in the
> discussion. If anyone has /. mod-points left for today, please do your
> duty now ;-)
>
> Regards,
> - Mark Lorenzen
The article is not on SlashDot, its on the ACM Queue and says nothing bad
about Ada. Unless you are offended by article say it wasn't the
end-all-be-all, fix-all-your-problems language many hoped it to be. The
point being, no language--however great--is going to fix all your woes. The
only negative thing I read in the comments made some incorrect comments
about its library. Replies to which, corrected the OP. Not everyone who
reads SlashDot is uneducated or biased (though I would take being called a
"hacker" a compliment). Ada's a tool, not a religion. I use it a lot at
work, but I also use several other languages where needed (needed is not
always equal to "what you would like to use").
DrX
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Another article involving Ada on /.
2004-06-28 22:03 ` Xenos
@ 2004-06-28 23:04 ` Björn Persson
2004-06-28 23:24 ` Mark Lorenzen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Björn Persson @ 2004-06-28 23:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
Xenos wrote:
> The article is not on SlashDot, its on the ACM Queue and says nothing bad
> about Ada.
It called Ada an expensive disaster. Regardless of whether that's
well-deserved or not, it's definitely a negative opinion.
--
Björn Persson PGP key A88682FD
omb jor ers @sv ge.
r o.b n.p son eri nu
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Another article involving Ada on /.
2004-06-28 22:03 ` Xenos
2004-06-28 23:04 ` Björn Persson
@ 2004-06-28 23:24 ` Mark Lorenzen
2004-06-28 23:43 ` Larry Kilgallen
` (2 more replies)
1 sibling, 3 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mark Lorenzen @ 2004-06-28 23:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
"Xenos" <dont.spam.me@spamhate.com> writes:
> "Mark Lorenzen" <mark.lorenzen@ofir.dk> wrote in message
> news:m3pt7jpiq1.fsf@0x5358cece.boanxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk...
> > Here:
> http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/04/06/28/170245.shtml?tid=126&tid=156&tid=172
> >
> > The usual hacker-comments on Ada are also present in the
> > discussion. If anyone has /. mod-points left for today, please do your
> > duty now ;-)
> >
> > Regards,
> > - Mark Lorenzen
>
> The article is not on SlashDot, its on the ACM Queue and says nothing bad
The article is on slashdot and it references an article on the ACM Queue.
> about Ada. Unless you are offended by article say it wasn't the
> end-all-be-all, fix-all-your-problems language many hoped it to be. The
> point being, no language--however great--is going to fix all your woes. The
The article is completely hopeless, but that is off-topic in this NG.
> only negative thing I read in the comments made some incorrect comments
> about its library. Replies to which, corrected the OP. Not everyone who
The comments *are* the usual comment about Ada being too verbose, and
C/C++ being easier to read. These are the comment from people who
write programs that have a lifetime of one year and never have to do
any maintenance themselves.
> reads SlashDot is uneducated or biased (though I would take being called a
> "hacker" a compliment). Ada's a tool, not a religion. I use it a lot at
For me "hacker" is a derogatory term.
> work, but I also use several other languages where needed (needed is not
> always equal to "what you would like to use").
>
> DrX
Regards,
- Mark Lorenzen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Another article involving Ada on /.
2004-06-28 23:24 ` Mark Lorenzen
@ 2004-06-28 23:43 ` Larry Kilgallen
2004-06-29 2:05 ` Ed Falis
2004-06-29 2:20 ` Stan Milam
2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Larry Kilgallen @ 2004-06-28 23:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <m3lli7p8pr.fsf@0x5358cece.boanxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk>, Mark Lorenzen <mark.lorenzen@ofir.dk> writes:
> "Xenos" <dont.spam.me@spamhate.com> writes:
>> reads SlashDot is uneducated or biased (though I would take being called a
>> "hacker" a compliment). Ada's a tool, not a religion. I use it a lot at
>
> For me "hacker" is a derogatory term.
For the average Slashdot poster*, it is a compliment.
*We can only guess about the average Slasdot _reader_.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Another article involving Ada on /.
2004-06-28 23:24 ` Mark Lorenzen
2004-06-28 23:43 ` Larry Kilgallen
@ 2004-06-29 2:05 ` Ed Falis
2004-06-29 2:20 ` Stan Milam
2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Ed Falis @ 2004-06-29 2:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 29 Jun 2004 01:24:16 +0200, Mark Lorenzen <mark.lorenzen@ofir.dk> wrote:
> For me "hacker" is a derogatory term.
"Hacker" was once a noble approach to software. It's long since been
coopted.
--
"Scientists should always state the opinions on which their facts are
based".
-- Unknown
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Another article involving Ada on /.
2004-06-28 23:24 ` Mark Lorenzen
2004-06-28 23:43 ` Larry Kilgallen
2004-06-29 2:05 ` Ed Falis
@ 2004-06-29 2:20 ` Stan Milam
2004-06-29 8:42 ` Mark Lorenzen
2 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Stan Milam @ 2004-06-29 2:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
Mark Lorenzen wrote:
> For me "hacker" is a derogatory term.
>
Goodness, I cannot count the times in 20 years of programming I've been
given a leviathian of a program(s) with no documentation and told to
"fix it or else...." That means hacking through thousands of lines of
code to figure out what is going on. I have made a career of hacking
through broken code to figure out what the heck it did and fix it. I'm
proud of the term "hacker," but I would be leery of the term "cracker."
Regards,
Stan Milam.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Another article involving Ada on /.
2004-06-29 2:20 ` Stan Milam
@ 2004-06-29 8:42 ` Mark Lorenzen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mark Lorenzen @ 2004-06-29 8:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
Stan Milam <stmilam@swbell.net> wrote in message news:<Cl4Ec.9698$3f2.9640@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>...
> Mark Lorenzen wrote:
> > For me "hacker" is a derogatory term.
> >
>
> Goodness, I cannot count the times in 20 years of programming I've been
> given a leviathian of a program(s) with no documentation and told to
> "fix it or else...." That means hacking through thousands of lines of
> code to figure out what is going on. I have made a career of hacking
> through broken code to figure out what the heck it did and fix it. I'm
> proud of the term "hacker," but I would be leery of the term "cracker."
>
> Regards,
> Stan Milam.
Having been exposed to the harsh realities of corporate life for only
a little over 5 years, I can not say that I have participated in many
projects. I have, however, tried once to hack through thousands of
lines of code in order to figure out what happened in a program, and
it wasn't fun at all. It was exceptionally boring.
For me, engineering (that includes software engineering) is about
*construction* with sound engineering methods. I love formal methods
and applicative languages as I think they represent sound engineering
tools. Sadly nobody uses them - therefore I am also hacking, like more
or less everybody else in software "engineering".
I am still so young (*cough*) that I have a na�ve hope, that things
will be better as the trade matures. But then, has it matured during
the last 20 years?
Regards,
- Mark Lorenzen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
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2004-06-28 19:48 Another article involving Ada on / Mark Lorenzen
2004-06-28 22:03 ` Xenos
2004-06-28 23:04 ` Björn Persson
2004-06-28 23:24 ` Mark Lorenzen
2004-06-28 23:43 ` Larry Kilgallen
2004-06-29 2:05 ` Ed Falis
2004-06-29 2:20 ` Stan Milam
2004-06-29 8:42 ` Mark Lorenzen
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