newsgroup(s) about structure editors and programming env.s

newsgroup(s) about structure editors and programming env.s

[Scott Vorthmann]

-------

	Is there any interest out there for a newsgroup (or two) devoted to
structure/syntax-directed/language-oriented editors and/or integrated
programming/software-engineering environments?  I'm posting this to the
two newsgroups I believe might hold the largest number of interested
readers.  For Ada, this might amount to a newsgroup for discussing APSE's;
for Modula-2, there are already 1 or 2 products available which provide
more than just a compiler, and are certainly worthy of discussion.

	Well, how about it?  I have a vested interest, since I'm doing my
thesis work in this area, but I know there are lots of places (mostly
academic) working on such.

	Please note:  I'd be delighted to hear from anyone by mail, but I'm
not doing any type of formal interest survey.  I just want to generate
interest; I don't have the know-how to spur formation of the desired
newsgroups.

Scott Vorthmann

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Re: newsgroup(s) about structure editors and programming env.s

[Dick Karpinski]

In article <213@gt-stratus.UUCP> vorth@gt-stratus.UUCP (Scott Vorthmann) writes:
>	Is there any interest out there for a newsgroup (or two) devoted to
>structure/syntax-directed/language-oriented editors and/or integrated

There sure is some interest.  I have always heard that language
oriented editors were a pain to use.  That is what I heard about
the ITC Modula oriented editor too, though to be fair, some folks
do like it.  For myself, and the UCSD Pascal community, I have
written a set of ASE macros for the better version of the standard
UCSD editor.  With ASE and the macros, three or four keystrokes
can install another while loop, if test, or whatever with consistent
indentation and commenting built in.  The last point saves me from
ever writing END; END; END.  Wanna know any more?

Dick

-- 
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Re: newsgroup(s) about structure editors and programming env.s

[Scott Vorthmann]

In article <432@ucsfcca.UUCP> dick@ucsfcca.UUCP (Dick Karpinski) writes:
>
>... For myself, and the UCSD Pascal community, I have
>written a set of ASE macros for the better version of the standard
>UCSD editor.  With ASE and the macros, three or four keystrokes
>can install another while loop, if test, or whatever with consistent
>indentation and commenting built in.  The last point saves me from
>ever writing END; END; END.

   First of all, building a program in a text editor, then handing it to a
compiler is NOT what I'm talking about.  The type of system I'm interested
in guides the programmer through a top-down construction of his program;
syntax errors are simply IMPOSSIBLE, and the better systems perform semantic
checks and generate code WHILE you are 'editing' your program.  The
traditional edit-compile-link-run loop can be closed almost completely, if
the system additionally provides an interpreter/debugger which can be
executed on any part of a program being constructed, at any time.  Sound
good?  It does to me.

   Research into this area has been going on for at least 6 years.  CMU and
Cornell (and possibly others I haven't heard of) have releases of their
systems available, and many other places are working on the idea.  It seems
that public knowledge of the existence (let alone the capabilities) of
SDE-based development environments is limited, at best.  (Please, no
indignant flames about that.)

   For that very reason, I propose a newsgroup dedicated to such ideas.
I possess neither the knowledge nor the presumptuousness to establish a
newsgroup.  If enough interest is indicated in this and other newsgroups,
maybe we can get one started.  C'mon people, lets hear it!