gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Nasser M. Abbasi]

Basic question: I've always been confused about which "Ada" to use.

If one wants to write some program in Ada for school,
and want to use Ada. Should one download gcc which has
Ada in it, or download gnat GPL 2010?

Can someone, using simple words, explain which one of
the above should one install? For example, gnatmake comes
with both gcc/ada and gnat GPL 2010?  Should one use gnatmake
or the new gpl configuration files to build an Ada program?

thanks
--Nasser

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Georg Bauhaus]

On 04.03.11 16:50, Nasser M. Abbasi wrote:
> Basic question: I've always been confused about which "Ada" to use.
> 
> If one wants to write some program in Ada for school,
> and want to use Ada. Should one download gcc which has
> Ada in it, or download gnat GPL 2010?

GNAT GPL 2010 is an easy install for ubiquitous platforms,
tested and checked before its release, by AdaCore.
Good for Free Software work, or for learning, or just
to enjoy Ada programming.

If you have Debian GNU/Linux, that's easy, too,
since its GNAT has been maintained well there for years.
With libraries and an Ada policy for the system.

With just gcc on Windows or Mac, things can be more difficult.
Last time I tried on Windows, I tried MingW; i.e. you get
half of Unix in addition to just gcc.  On a Mac there
are some pre-built editions (one for older Macs); a bit
tricky IIRC.

> Can someone, using simple words, explain which one of
> the above should one install? For example, gnatmake comes
> with both gcc/ada and gnat GPL 2010?  Should one use gnatmake
> or the new gpl configuration files to build an Ada program?

(That would be GPR configuration files?)  You can use
gnatmake with -Pyourprojectfile if you like.
The User's Guide explains this quite well; I found reading the
first chapters time well spent.

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Martin]

On Mar 4, 4:02 pm, Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauh...@futureapps.de>
wrote:
> With just gcc on Windows or Mac, things can be more difficult.
> Last time I tried on Windows, I tried MingW; i.e. you get
> half of Unix in addition to just gcc.  On a Mac there
> are some pre-built editions (one for older Macs); a bit
> tricky IIRC.


GNAT GPL 2010 is available for Mac from http://libre.adacore.com!!

-- Martin

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Georg Bauhaus]

On 04.03.11 18:52, Martin wrote:
> On Mar 4, 4:02 pm, Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauh...@futureapps.de>
> wrote:
>> With just gcc on Windows or Mac, things can be more difficult.
>> Last time I tried on Windows, I tried MingW; i.e. you get
>> half of Unix in addition to just gcc.  On a Mac there
>> are some pre-built editions (one for older Macs); a bit
>> tricky IIRC.
> 
> 
> GNAT GPL 2010 is available for Mac from http://libre.adacore.com!!

Yes, since Mac is also ubiquitous;-) I have GNAT GPL installed on mine.
With only GCC, and Ada part of GCC (as opposed to GNAT GPL as I
understood the OP), things can be more difficult on a Mac.

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Simon Wright]

Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauhaus@futureapps.de> writes:

> On 04.03.11 18:52, Martin wrote:
>> On Mar 4, 4:02 pm, Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauh...@futureapps.de>
>> wrote:
>>> With just gcc on Windows or Mac, things can be more difficult.
>>> Last time I tried on Windows, I tried MingW; i.e. you get
>>> half of Unix in addition to just gcc.  On a Mac there
>>> are some pre-built editions (one for older Macs); a bit
>>> tricky IIRC.
>> 
>> GNAT GPL 2010 is available for Mac from http://libre.adacore.com!!
>
> Yes, since Mac is also ubiquitous;-) I have GNAT GPL installed on mine.
> With only GCC, and Ada part of GCC (as opposed to GNAT GPL as I
> understood the OP), things can be more difficult on a Mac.

At the moment this Macbook Pro is running gcc version 4.6.0 20110225
(experimental) [trunk revision 157963] (GCC) with C, C++, Ada and
Fortran.

After a battle I got GNATcoll to build, now I just need a simple IVP
(installation verification program, in DECspeak) to check that it (the
database sections) actually work (to first order).

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)]

Le Fri, 04 Mar 2011 17:02:44 +0100, Georg Bauhaus  
<rm.dash-bauhaus@futureapps.de> a écrit:
> With just gcc on Windows or Mac, things can be more difficult.
> Last time I tried on Windows, I tried MingW; i.e. you get
> half of Unix in addition to just gcc.
You can use MinGW/Ada on Windows, without installing all of that UNIX  
stuffs which comes with mSys. Actually, mSys is only required if you want  
to build from source whose build process is designed the GNU way.


-- 
Si les chats miaulent et font autant de vocalises bizarres, c’est pas pour  
les chiens.
“ c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */ ” [Anonymous]

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Ludovic Brenta]

Nasser M. Abbasi wrote:
> Basic question: I've always been confused about which "Ada" to use.
>
> If one wants to write some program in Ada for school,
> and want to use Ada. Should one download gcc which has
> Ada in it, or download gnat GPL 2010?
>
> Can someone, using simple words, explain which one of
> the above should one install? For example, gnatmake comes
> with both gcc/ada and gnat GPL 2010?  Should one use gnatmake
> or the new gpl configuration files to build an Ada program?

They both have gnatmake and they both use the same .gpr project files
(which have been "new" for 9 years or so).  You can also use gprbuild
for mixed-language development, it also uses the same project files
but can drive compilers for languages other than Ada.  Gprbuild is
separate from GCC.

I think the decision should depend on your platform.  If your platform
provides precompiled binaries, you should use them; that is the case
in particular for Debian & derivatives (which also include gprbuild as
a separate package), Gentoo and the *BSDs.  If your platform does not,
then GNAT GPL Edition is probably what you want. It will provide
binaries of the compiler and GPS but only sources for all other
libraries, so you'll have to recompile quite a lot (e.g. GtkAda).

Another factor in your decision is the licensing terms of the run-time
library: pure GPL for GNAT GPL Edition, GPL with Runtime Exception for
GCC.

HTH

--
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[onox]

On Mar 4, 5:06 pm, Ludovic Brenta <ludo...@ludovic-brenta.org> wrote:
> Nasser M. Abbasi wrote:
> > Basic question: I've always been confused about which "Ada" to use.
>
> > If one wants to write some program in Ada for school,
> > and want to use Ada. Should one download gcc which has
> > Ada in it, or download gnat GPL 2010?
>
> > Can someone, using simple words, explain which one of
> > the above should one install? For example, gnatmake comes
> > with both gcc/ada and gnat GPL 2010?  Should one use gnatmake
> > or the new gpl configuration files to build an Ada program?
>
> They both have gnatmake and they both use the same .gpr project files
> (which have been "new" for 9 years or so).  You can also use gprbuild
> for mixed-language development, it also uses the same project files
> but can drive compilers for languages other than Ada.  Gprbuild is
> separate from GCC.
>
> I think the decision should depend on your platform.  If your platform
> provides precompiled binaries, you should use them; that is the case
> in particular for Debian & derivatives (which also include gprbuild as
> a separate package), Gentoo and the *BSDs.  If your platform does not,
> then GNAT GPL Edition is probably what you want. It will provide
> binaries of the compiler and GPS but only sources for all other
> libraries, so you'll have to recompile quite a lot (e.g. GtkAda).
>
> Another factor in your decision is the licensing terms of the run-time
> library: pure GPL for GNAT GPL Edition, GPL with Runtime Exception for
> GCC.
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Ludovic Brenta.

In my opinion Gentoo doesn't really have good Ada support. Latest
version of gnat-gcc is 4.3.4 and of gnat-gpl is 4.1.3.2008-r1. And
(according to the ChangeLog files) most Ada packages seem to be quite
old. I found it easier to just download gnat-gpl 2010 from ACT's
website. (If I could run VM's, I would develop in a Debian or *BSD VM)

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Ludovic Brenta]

onox writes on comp.lang.ada:
> In my opinion Gentoo doesn't really have good Ada support. Latest
> version of gnat-gcc is 4.3.4 and of gnat-gpl is 4.1.3.2008-r1. And
> (according to the ChangeLog files) most Ada packages seem to be quite
> old. I found it easier to just download gnat-gpl 2010 from ACT's
> website. (If I could run VM's, I would develop in a Debian or *BSD VM)

You don't need a VM, you can install Debian in a chroot on your Gentoo
or other system.  See
http://lists.debian.org/debian-ada/2010/02/msg00003.html

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Nasser M. Abbasi]

On 3/4/2011 5:05 PM, onox wrote:
>
> In my opinion Gentoo doesn't really have good Ada support. Latest
> version of gnat-gcc is 4.3.4 and of gnat-gpl is 4.1.3.2008-r1. And
> (according to the ChangeLog files) most Ada packages seem to be quite
> old. I found it easier to just download gnat-gpl 2010 from ACT's
> website. (If I could run VM's, I would develop in a Debian or *BSD VM)

The above type of thing is what confuses me.

I am now downloading gcc 4.5.1-2 (I use cygwin, and this is what
it says the latest gcc for cygwin), but I also use linux on
virtual PC sometimes.

So, how does one know which version of "Ada" or GNAT the above has?
i.e. compared to gnat GPL2010?  i.e. which one would be more recent?

What is the reference point any way? I assume they are both Ada 2005.

Another question: I would like to use gcc to build an Ada program,
only because I know gcc is available everywhere, but if I use gnat GPL
how do I make sure the same program will build with gcc if
one of these 2 choices happened to be 'recent' than the other or
one has more packages than the other?

i.e. which gcc version does GNAT GPL 2010 correspond to?

So that if I use gnat GPL, and send the code to someone, and
they use gcc to compile, they will not get an errors?

one more thing: if I want to use GPS for editing/compiling/debugging
an Ada program, do I have to use GNAT GPL compiler or can I use
gcc with that?

thank you,
--Nasser

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Ludovic Brenta]

Nasser M. Abbasi writes on comp.lang.ada:
> On 3/4/2011 5:05 PM, onox wrote:
>>
>> In my opinion Gentoo doesn't really have good Ada support. Latest
>> version of gnat-gcc is 4.3.4 and of gnat-gpl is 4.1.3.2008-r1. And
>> (according to the ChangeLog files) most Ada packages seem to be quite
>> old. I found it easier to just download gnat-gpl 2010 from ACT's
>> website. (If I could run VM's, I would develop in a Debian or *BSD VM)
>
> The above type of thing is what confuses me.
>
> I am now downloading gcc 4.5.1-2 (I use cygwin, and this is what
> it says the latest gcc for cygwin), but I also use linux on
> virtual PC sometimes.
>
> So, how does one know which version of "Ada" or GNAT the above has?
> i.e. compared to gnat GPL2010?  i.e. which one would be more recent?
>
> What is the reference point any way? I assume they are both Ada 2005.

Full details here:
http://people.debian.org/~lbrenta/debian-ada-policy.html#Background-information

> Another question: I would like to use gcc to build an Ada program,
> only because I know gcc is available everywhere, but if I use gnat GPL
> how do I make sure the same program will build with gcc if one of
> these 2 choices happened to be 'recent' than the other or one has more
> packages than the other?
>
> i.e. which gcc version does GNAT GPL 2010 correspond to?

See above.

> So that if I use gnat GPL, and send the code to someone, and they use
> gcc to compile, they will not get an errors?

Use the least common denominator, i.e. the oldest release you can live
with.

> one more thing: if I want to use GPS for editing/compiling/debugging
> an Ada program, do I have to use GNAT GPL compiler or can I use gcc
> with that?

You can use GCC.

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Julian Leyh]

On 6 Mrz., 05:51, "Nasser M. Abbasi" <n...@12000.org> wrote:
> Another question: I would like to use gcc to build an Ada program,
> only because I know gcc is available everywhere, but if I use gnat GPL
> how do I make sure the same program will build with gcc if
> one of these 2 choices happened to be 'recent' than the other or
> one has more packages than the other?

You'd have to test your program with all the compilers you want it to
be compilable with, i.e. compile it with both, GNAT-GPL and GCC-GNAT.

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Georg Bauhaus]

On 07.03.11 16:35, Julian Leyh wrote:
> On 6 Mrz., 05:51, "Nasser M. Abbasi" <n...@12000.org> wrote:
>> Another question: I would like to use gcc to build an Ada program,
>> only because I know gcc is available everywhere, but if I use gnat GPL
>> how do I make sure the same program will build with gcc if
>> one of these 2 choices happened to be 'recent' than the other or
>> one has more packages than the other?
> 
> You'd have to test your program with all the compilers you want it to
> be compilable with, i.e. compile it with both, GNAT-GPL and GCC-GNAT.

Chances are that all Ada compilers will compile
standard Ada programs.  This shouldn't be too
limiting for non-graphical, non-networked programs.

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Tero Koskinen]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:23:15 +0100 Georg Bauhaus wrote:
> On 07.03.11 16:35, Julian Leyh wrote:
> > You'd have to test your program with all the compilers you want it to
> > be compilable with, i.e. compile it with both, GNAT-GPL and GCC-GNAT.
> 
> Chances are that all Ada compilers will compile
> standard Ada programs.  This shouldn't be too
> limiting for non-graphical, non-networked programs.

You apparently haven't tried many Ada compilers. :)

I seem to hit more or less constantly into various compiler
bugs when I am developing Ahven or other related projects and testing
them with four or five different compilers (FSF GNAT, GNAT GPL, Janus/Ada,
Irvine ICCAda, ObjectAda) on 3 platforms (Windows, Linux, OpenBSD).

For example, two different Ada compilers choked on this (rather largish)
change:
https://bitbucket.org/tkoskine/ahven-timeout/changeset/91a9f910a64b#chg_src/ahven-framework.adb_newline147

One compiler didn't like "case Results.Get_Status is"[1] and other compiler
simply dead-locked when the final program was run. Third compiler accepted
code as-is and the end result also behaved as expected.

I am trying to say that, in my experience, you shouldn't assume that
all Ada compilers will compile standard Ada programs. You need to actually
test that. Ahven's commit logs are littered with various "Work-around for XXX"
messages.

Oh, and if this compiling thing is too easy, try same with all warnings
turned on for all compilers. :)

-- 
Tero Koskinen - http://iki.fi/tero.koskinen/

[1] https://bitbucket.org/tkoskine/ahven-timeout/changeset/91a9f910a64b#chg_src/ahven-framework.adb_newline250

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Simon Wright]

Julian Leyh <julian@vgai.de> writes:

> On 6 Mrz., 05:51, "Nasser M. Abbasi" <n...@12000.org> wrote:
>> Another question: I would like to use gcc to build an Ada program,
>> only because I know gcc is available everywhere, but if I use gnat GPL
>> how do I make sure the same program will build with gcc if
>> one of these 2 choices happened to be 'recent' than the other or
>> one has more packages than the other?
>
> You'd have to test your program with all the compilers you want it to
> be compilable with, i.e. compile it with both, GNAT-GPL and GCC-GNAT.

You'd have to try to be sure; but I've rarely had problems if I stick to
straightforward constructs. Right now, going for all the Ada2012
features you can is going to cause you problems (not least because
AdaCore have implemented features 'at risk', ie before the standard has
been agreed, and GNAT GPL/GCC are very likely to be at different stages.)

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Pascal Obry]

Nasser,

> Basic question: I've always been confused about which "Ada" to use.
>
> If one wants to write some program in Ada for school,
> and want to use Ada. Should one download gcc which has
> Ada in it, or download gnat GPL 2010?

For school, you probably want to look at the GAP program:

    http://www.adacore.com/home/academia/

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|    http://www.obry.net  -  http://v2p.fr.eu.org
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B

Re: gnat GPL 2010 or gcc/ada?

[Simon Clubley]

On 2011-03-04, Nasser M. Abbasi <nma@12000.org> wrote:
> Basic question: I've always been confused about which "Ada" to use.
>
> If one wants to write some program in Ada for school,
> and want to use Ada. Should one download gcc which has
> Ada in it, or download gnat GPL 2010?
>
> Can someone, using simple words, explain which one of
> the above should one install? For example, gnatmake comes
> with both gcc/ada and gnat GPL 2010?  Should one use gnatmake
> or the new gpl configuration files to build an Ada program?
>

As well as the already mentioned GPL versus GMGPL issue, you need to
consider if you are intending to perform any embedded or cross compiler
work with Ada.

For example, RTEMS and AVR-Ada both use the FSF version as their base
while MaRTE appears to need the AdaCore version.

My personal preference is for the FSF version (because of it's GMGPL
license) even when I am not using RTEMS or targeting a AVR processor.

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world