C compiler warnings

C compiler warnings

[Brian May]

This story, while not strictly related to Ada, might interest some
people here. It seems to show that while Ada is going in one direction
(strict compiler checking of code), C is going in the opposite
direction (assume the developer knows what he/she is doing).

http://blog.madism.org/index.php/2006/12/02/114-i-hate-closed-minded-people
-- 
Brian May <bam@snoopy.apana.org.au>

Re: C compiler warnings

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <sa4hcwbrxr2.fsf@margay.local>, Brian May <bam@snoopy.apana.org.au> writes:
> This story, while not strictly related to Ada, might interest some
> people here. It seems to show that while Ada is going in one direction
> (strict compiler checking of code), C is going in the opposite
> direction (assume the developer knows what he/she is doing).

The quote does not say "C" is going in the opposite direction from Ada.
It shows at most that a particular implementation of "C" is going that
way.  The HP (nee Compaq (nee DEC)) C compiler on VMS has been steadily
getting more and more checks added to find programmer errors.  Of course
it can never do so much as an Ada compiler, but it is not the case that
all C compilers are decreasing their level of checking.

Re: C compiler warnings

[Jeffrey R. Carter]

Brian May wrote:
> This story, while not strictly related to Ada, might interest some
> people here. It seems to show that while Ada is going in one direction
> (strict compiler checking of code), C is going in the opposite
> direction (assume the developer knows what he/she is doing).

Going in the opposite direction? C's basic design philosophy has always 
been to make that assumption. It seems to me that the C compilers with 
extensive warnings are the ones going in an unusual direction. I wish 
they'd all get rid of the warnings; then maybe more people would use a 
well designed language.

-- 
Jeff Carter
"We use a large, vibrating egg."
Annie Hall
44

Re: C compiler warnings

[Dmitry A. Kazakov]

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:41:57 GMT, Jeffrey R. Carter wrote:

> Brian May wrote:
>> This story, while not strictly related to Ada, might interest some
>> people here. It seems to show that while Ada is going in one direction
>> (strict compiler checking of code), C is going in the opposite
>> direction (assume the developer knows what he/she is doing).
> 
> Going in the opposite direction? C's basic design philosophy has always 
> been to make that assumption. It seems to me that the C compilers with 
> extensive warnings are the ones going in an unusual direction.

The initial C design was. But its further evolution has always been in the
direction of becoming more contract-based, more like Ada. The difference
though was in the treatment of contracts. In C traditionally less attention
was paid to enforcing the contract on both parties. The contract (nonull)
was assumed on the callee's side, but ignored on the caller's one. The
rationale probably was that C usually does not try to enforce the contracts
at run-time (Ada does). This can explain why nonull was not attempted to
check. It is not fully statically checkable. So why should we bother?

> I wish 
> they'd all get rid of the warnings; then maybe more people would use a 
> well designed language.

I don't think so. They just would use more and more tools instead. It is
the tool chains which compensate language deficiencies. Just look around,
people are ready to invest into tools, which should by sole magic
compensate for everything, from the use of C++ to mismanagement. A tool
might cost several thousands of dollars, and it could be dozens of them.
Try to sell a compiler for that money. Something is deeply wrong in all
this.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de

Re: C compiler warnings

[Maciej Sobczak]

Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:

>> I wish 
>> they'd all get rid of the warnings; then maybe more people would use a 
>> well designed language.
> 
> I don't think so. They just would use more and more tools instead. It is
> the tool chains which compensate language deficiencies. Just look around,
> people are ready to invest into tools, which should by sole magic
> compensate for everything, from the use of C++ to mismanagement. A tool
> might cost several thousands of dollars, and it could be dozens of them.
> Try to sell a compiler for that money. Something is deeply wrong in all
> this.

What about SPARK?

-- 
Maciej Sobczak : http://www.msobczak.com/
Programming    : http://www.msobczak.com/prog/

Re: C compiler warnings

[Dmitry A. Kazakov]

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:03:48 +0100, Maciej Sobczak wrote:

> Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
> 
>>> I wish 
>>> they'd all get rid of the warnings; then maybe more people would use a 
>>> well designed language.
>> 
>> I don't think so. They just would use more and more tools instead. It is
>> the tool chains which compensate language deficiencies. Just look around,
>> people are ready to invest into tools, which should by sole magic
>> compensate for everything, from the use of C++ to mismanagement. A tool
>> might cost several thousands of dollars, and it could be dozens of them.
>> Try to sell a compiler for that money. Something is deeply wrong in all
>> this.
> 
> What about SPARK?

What do you mean?

The relationship between SPARK and Ada is more symbiotic but still same.
Eventually any tool [n-generation, meta-, domain-specific language] is
parasitizing on its host, a "real" programming language. Be it UML, XML,
embedded SQL, Simulink, templates, or, yes, SPARK... (:-))

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de

Re: C compiler warnings

[Maciej Sobczak]

Maciej Sobczak wrote:

>> I don't think so. They just would use more and more tools instead. It is
>> the tool chains which compensate language deficiencies. Just look around,
>> people are ready to invest into tools, which should by sole magic
>> compensate for everything, from the use of C++ to mismanagement. A tool
>> might cost several thousands of dollars, and it could be dozens of them.
>> Try to sell a compiler for that money. Something is deeply wrong in all
>> this.
> 
> What about SPARK?

Oh yeah, and there is AdaControl, which was just announced in another 
thread. (You know your tools better than me, anyway.)

As you see, "they" (the C and C++ programmers) are not that much 
strangers... ;-)

-- 
Maciej Sobczak : http://www.msobczak.com/
Programming    : http://www.msobczak.com/prog/