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From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>
Subject: Re: Why use C++?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 21:13:18 +0200
Date: 2011-08-16T21:13:18+02:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1qwybpbhjv11s.6orqbnwyy15z.dlg@40tude.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: CA704281.1E6C%yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk

On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:51:29 +0100, Bill Findlay wrote:

> On 16/08/2011 11:58, in article 17sfxzivd6ba0.1lpjrmelcfuoa$.dlg@40tude.net,
> "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:23:48 +0200, Georg Bauhaus wrote:
>> 
>>> Is changing only the representation of types, not the types,
>>> necessarily premature optimization?
>> 
>> The answer depends on the time the change is made. "Premature" in its
>> original meaning (Knuth) means: during design, before functional
>> requirements are met.
> 
> There are important cases in which the representation of types is an
> essential part of the functional requirement.

I addressed this in my earlier post.

> For example, writing a
> bit-accurate emulator for an existing computer architecture;

Actually not. You can represent an array of bits in any desired way. The
order of bits and their actual layout in the memory (if observable), are
unrelated:

   type Word is array (1..16) of Boolean;
   type Word is mod 2**16;
   type Word is range 0..2**16-1;
   type Word is new Wide_Character;

You are free to choose any of them and yet remain "bit-accurate". Bit
accuracy is defined by the implementation of Get_Bit, Get_Byte etc
operations.

> or processing data generated by a legacy non-Ada system.

You need only one type for an octet or other atomic type used as the I/O
unit. Note that this type is predefined by the I/O library, so normally
there is no need not to define it. You cannot use anything more complex
than that because there is no any guaranty on I/O semantics of composite
type.

> These cases are not the most common, but they are also not the ignorable
> trivia you claim them to be.

They are. The second case is communication to alien hardware/software
protocols, it is my daily job. You don't need any representation clauses
there.

It is amazing how many people think otherwise. It seems that conflation of
the encoding issues with type representations is very deep rooted.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de



  reply	other threads:[~2011-08-16 19:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 87+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <fb9f787c-af06-427a-82b6-b0684e8dcbc5@s2g2000vby.googlegroups.com>
     [not found] ` <j1kaj8$dge$1@adenine.netfront.net>
     [not found]   ` <1e292299-2cbe-4443-86f3-b19b8af50fff@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
     [not found]     ` <j1tha5$11q5$1@adenine.netfront.net>
     [not found]       ` <1fd0cc9b-859d-428e-b68a-11e34de84225@gz10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
2011-08-10 19:05         ` Why use C++? Niklas Holsti
2011-08-10 22:37           ` Randy Brukardt
2011-08-10 22:49             ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-08-12  4:54               ` Randy Brukardt
2011-08-11  7:54             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-11  8:20               ` Jed
2011-08-11  9:13                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-11 10:57                   ` Jed
2011-08-11 11:43                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-12  5:07                       ` Jed
2011-08-11 13:11                     ` Nomen Nescio
2011-08-11 15:11                       ` Paul
2011-08-12  5:15                       ` Jed
2011-08-12 21:39                         ` Fritz Wuehler
2011-08-14  6:52                           ` Jed
2011-08-14  8:13                             ` Nomen Nescio
2011-08-11 15:09                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-12  5:03                       ` Jed
2011-08-12  8:32                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-12 13:15                           ` Hyman Rosen
2011-08-12 22:09                             ` Randy Brukardt
2011-08-12 15:14                           ` Jed
2011-08-12 17:20                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-12 19:51                               ` Jed
2011-08-12 21:22                                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-08-14  7:00                                   ` Jed
2011-08-16 13:06                                     ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-08-13  9:37                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-14  5:22                                   ` Jed
2011-08-13 10:27                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-14  5:35                                   ` Jed
2011-08-14 20:13                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-15 11:38                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-13 11:02                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-14  5:56                                   ` Jed
2011-08-12  9:21                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-12 13:26                           ` Jed
2011-08-12 14:30                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-12 19:06                               ` Jed
2011-08-12 20:05                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-13  7:53                                   ` Jed
2011-08-13  9:15                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-13  9:29                                       ` Ian Collins
2011-08-13  9:52                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-13 11:10                                           ` Ian Collins
2011-08-13 11:46                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-13 20:30                                               ` Ian Collins
2011-08-13 11:54                                             ` Brian Drummond
2011-08-13 13:12                                               ` Simon Wright
2011-08-14 11:01                                                 ` Brian Drummond
2011-08-14  4:54                                             ` Jed
2011-08-14  4:35                                           ` Jed
2011-08-14  6:46                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-14  4:49                                           ` Jed
2011-08-14  6:51                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-14  4:29                                       ` Jed
2011-08-14  7:29                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-16  8:18                                       ` Nick Keighley
2011-08-16  8:47                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-16  9:52                                           ` Nick Keighley
2011-08-16 10:39                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-16 10:23                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-16 10:58                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-16 11:44                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-16 14:51                                               ` Bill Findlay
2011-08-16 19:13                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2011-08-16 19:23                                                   ` Bill Findlay
2011-08-12 11:48                 ` Stuart Redmann
2011-08-12 13:12                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-08-12 15:50                     ` Stuart Redmann
2011-08-12 17:02                       ` Bill Findlay
2011-08-15 12:59                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-08-12  5:02               ` Randy Brukardt
2011-08-12  5:16                 ` Robert Wessel
2011-08-12 16:39                   ` Adam Beneschan
2011-08-12  5:24                 ` Jed
2011-08-12  6:51                   ` Paavo Helde
2011-08-12  7:41                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-12 15:50                   ` Fritz Wuehler
2011-08-12 19:59                     ` Jed
2011-08-13  8:06                     ` Stephen Leake
2011-08-12  9:40                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-08-12  9:45                   ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-08-12 10:48                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-08-12 15:56                       ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-08-13  8:08                   ` Stephen Leake
2011-08-18 13:39               ` Louisa
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