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From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>
Subject: Re: How do I write directly to a memory address?
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 19:34:38 +0100
Date: 2011-02-09T19:34:35+01:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1gb9uaqvcot1s.1kgrfw1nqvbmc$.dlg@40tude.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 4d52da59$0$18057$882e7ee2@usenet-news.net

On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 13:17:59 -0500, Hyman Rosen wrote:

> On 2/9/2011 1:02 PM, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 12:15:53 -0500, Hyman Rosen wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. If I'm going to believe someone who is claiming that
>>> certain things are wrong and need to be improved, I want
>>> to look at their work to see evidence that it is better
>>> than that of the people they criticize.
>>
>> No, you cannot. There are economical reasons (ruined, non-functioning
>> market of software), why it is impossible for anybody to design software
>> properly. Even if they wanted. Those who couldn't sell their souls are out
>> of business, long ago. There are some small niches remaining, rapidly
>> closing. Something must happen, really disastrous (and it will), that would
>> make the society and the law makers to rethink the ways. But so far
>> everybody is happy except for a couple of retrogrades from c.l.a.
> 
> How can you consider something to be "proper design" when
> it cannot produce working software in a timely fashion?

"Working" needs to be defined.

> Software exists to do things, not to live in perfect and
> abstract beauty. A design methodology must be able to
> produce the ting it is meant to produce by the time it is
> needed, or it is not a useful methodology.

No, the technology must be able to produce an economically reasonable
product. The software industry in its present state is not economically
sustainable because the producers are not liable to software faults. Which
means that there exist hidden costs of software paid by others. This is a
form socialism (distribution of wealth), which is known for not working.

> When other methodologies do so, and then someone comes along
> and says the results of those methodologies are garbage, I
> would consider him a crank - after all, here is the product
> in front of me, and to all appearances it works as it should.

Here is a steak infected by botulin in front of you. How do you know it
works as it should?

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de



  reply	other threads:[~2011-02-09 18:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 381+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-02-03  5:52 How do I write directly to a memory address? Syntax Issues
2011-02-03  8:00 ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-03  8:01   ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 13:34   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-02-03  8:08 ` mockturtle
2011-02-03 18:07   ` Jeffrey Carter
2011-02-08 13:43   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2011-02-08 21:07     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-10  2:21     ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-03  8:24 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-03 10:50   ` Syntax Issues
2011-02-03 11:03   ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-03 18:24   ` Jeffrey Carter
2011-02-04  9:21     ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-03 21:30   ` Florian Weimer
2011-02-04  9:24   ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-04 10:31     ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-04 11:07       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-04 17:35       ` Jeffrey Carter
2011-02-04 16:00     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-04 17:40       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-04 18:35         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-05  5:17           ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-04 21:36       ` Shark8
2011-02-04 23:00       ` Adam Beneschan
2011-02-05  0:20         ` John B. Matthews
2011-02-05 14:56       ` Pascal Obry
2011-02-07 14:59         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-07 16:24           ` Robert A Duff
2011-02-07 16:44             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-07 17:02               ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-03-01 20:27             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-01 20:47               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-01 21:17                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-01 21:37                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-01 21:54                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02  8:42                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-02 14:36                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02 15:30                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-02 15:40                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02 16:25                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-03-02 16:40                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02 18:44                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-03-02 18:59                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02 17:21                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-02 17:40                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02 18:04                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-02 18:29                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02 21:55                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-02 22:10                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03  8:14                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-03  8:04                                 ` Simon Wright
2011-03-03  8:23                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-03  8:50                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03  7:54                               ` Simon Wright
2011-03-02 20:34                   ` KK6GM
2011-03-02 20:59                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02 21:03                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-02 21:13                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02 21:34                           ` KK6GM
2011-03-03  1:09                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03  1:38                               ` KK6GM
2011-03-03  2:42                               ` Randy Brukardt
2011-03-02 23:18                           ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-02 23:26                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03  0:46                               ` Edward Fish
2011-03-03  1:03                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03  3:01                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2011-03-03  6:05                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03  8:52                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-03 17:51                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03 18:32                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-03 20:08                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03 21:55                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-03 22:08                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03 20:34                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-04  0:22                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2011-03-04  3:21                                         ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-03-04 16:48                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03 21:24                               ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-03 21:32                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03 21:39                                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-03-03 21:44                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03 22:28                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-03-01 21:52               ` Pascal Obry
2011-03-01 22:08                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02  0:41                   ` Randy Brukardt
2011-03-02  2:59                     ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-03-03  1:44                       ` Randy Brukardt
2011-03-02 14:26                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02 14:34                       ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-03-02 14:59                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02 15:19                           ` Pascal Obry
2011-03-02 15:35                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02 15:49                           ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-03-02 16:03                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-03  2:23                       ` Randy Brukardt
2011-03-03  5:48                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-03-02  9:19                   ` Pascal Obry
2011-03-02  9:31                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-02  9:45                       ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-03-02 10:24                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-03-02 11:16                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-02 14:51                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-06 17:49     ` Simon Clubley
2011-02-06 18:18       ` Niklas Holsti
2011-02-06 19:05         ` Simon Clubley
2011-02-06 20:01           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-06 21:27             ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-02-06 23:08               ` Shark8
2011-02-07  6:38                 ` Niklas Holsti
2011-02-07  7:23                   ` Shark8
2011-02-07  8:31                     ` Niklas Holsti
2011-02-07 12:31                       ` Simon Clubley
2011-02-07 12:42                         ` Simon Clubley
2011-02-07 21:54                           ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-08  0:21                             ` Bill Findlay
2011-02-08  1:06                             ` Adam Beneschan
2011-02-21  7:17                               ` David Thompson
2011-02-08 12:46                             ` Simon Clubley
2011-02-08 13:12                             ` J-P. Rosen
2011-02-08 18:03                               ` Jeffrey Carter
2011-02-07  8:38               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-07  9:05                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-02-07  9:24                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-07 23:11                     ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-02-08 18:14                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-08 21:48                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-02-09  8:43                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 21:07                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-02-09 21:38                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-03-01 21:45                                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2011-02-07  9:00             ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-07 13:43               ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-07 13:56                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-07 14:58                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-07 15:21                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-07 16:14                       ` Robert A Duff
2011-02-07 17:23                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-07 18:38                         ` Jeffrey Carter
2011-02-07 21:38                           ` Robert A Duff
2011-02-07 22:41                             ` Simon Wright
2011-02-07 18:10                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-07 19:27                         ` Simon Wright
2011-02-07 19:29                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-07 16:54                     ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-07 17:55                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08  8:04                         ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-08  9:01                           ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-02-08  9:08                             ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-08  9:43                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 19:53                             ` Shark8
2011-02-08  9:46                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08  9:58                             ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-08 10:03                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 10:08                                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-08 10:27                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 10:15                                 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-02-08 16:48                                 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-02-08 18:25                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 20:48                                     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-08 21:24                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 21:41                                         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09  8:59                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 18:25                                             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 20:03                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 20:19                                                 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 21:10                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 21:42                                                     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-08 17:11                             ` Pascal Obry
2011-02-08 17:11                             ` Pascal Obry
2011-02-08 17:11                             ` Pascal Obry
2011-02-08 17:24                               ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 18:27                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-08 18:43                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 10:10                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 10:14                             ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-08 10:31                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 18:30                               ` Jeffrey Carter
2011-02-08 18:47                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 20:11                                   ` Shark8
2011-02-08 20:27                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 20:52                                       ` Shark8
2011-02-08 21:21                                         ` Jeffrey Carter
2011-02-08 21:35                                           ` Shark8
2011-02-09  0:03                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-09  0:14                                         ` Shark8
2011-02-10  2:51                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-10  4:30                                             ` Shark8
2011-02-11  2:16                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-09 15:34                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 16:15                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 16:43                                             ` KK6GM
2011-02-09 17:49                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 17:54                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 18:15                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 18:25                                                   ` Shark8
2011-02-09 20:16                                                   ` Simon Wright
2011-02-09 20:33                                                     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 16:48                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 17:49                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 18:07                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 18:36                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 19:12                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 19:41                                                       ` Shark8
2011-02-09 20:00                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 20:25                                                           ` Shark8
2011-02-09 21:20                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 21:23                                                               ` Shark8
2011-02-09 21:40                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 23:59                                                                   ` Robert A Duff
2011-02-09 20:01                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 20:56                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 21:47                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 21:51                                                             ` Simon Wright
2011-02-09 21:56                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 22:01                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-10  3:08                                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-09 22:31                                                   ` Anonymous
2011-02-09 22:34                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 22:41                                                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 22:52                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
     [not found]                                                 ` <4d52d7d9$0$18057$882e7ee2@usenet-news.ne t>
2011-02-10  3:03                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-09 18:23                                               ` Shark8
2011-02-09 18:31                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 19:20                                                   ` Shark8
2011-02-09 19:43                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 20:29                                                       ` Shark8
2011-02-09 21:26                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 21:40                                                           ` Shark8
2011-02-09 22:09                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 22:23                                                               ` Shark8
2011-02-09 22:31                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 22:38                                                                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 22:50                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-10  0:16                                                                       ` Shark8
2011-02-10 15:28                                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-10 16:38                                                                           ` Shark8
2011-02-10 16:46                                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-10  3:23                                                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-10 17:33                                                                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 23:07                                                                   ` Shark8
2011-02-09 23:24                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-10  0:35                                                                       ` Shark8
2011-02-10 15:38                                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-10 17:05                                                                           ` Shark8
2011-02-10 17:40                                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-10 18:22                                                                               ` Shark8
2011-02-10 19:20                                                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-11  8:26                                                                               ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-11 10:22                                                                                 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2011-02-11 16:10                                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-11 18:04                                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-11 18:31                                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-11 18:42                                                                                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-11 18:52                                                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-11 20:02                                                                                           ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-11 19:41                                                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-11 18:43                                                                                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-11 18:57                                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-11 20:15                                                                                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-11 20:29                                                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-11 20:42                                                                                           ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-11 18:52                                                                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-11 19:02                                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-10 17:30                                                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-09 18:10                                             ` Shark8
2011-02-10  2:56                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-09 21:15                                         ` Anonymous
2011-02-08 19:43                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-08 20:01                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 20:27                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-08 20:41                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 21:06                                     ` Adam Beneschan
2011-02-08 21:13                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 21:16                                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-08 22:41                                         ` Adam Beneschan
2011-02-09 18:39                                           ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 20:29                                             ` Simon Wright
2011-02-09 20:44                                               ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-10  3:03                                                 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-02-10 19:07                                                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-11  7:19                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2011-02-11 18:43                                                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 10:42                                         ` Simon Wright
2011-02-09 18:39                                           ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 18:48                                             ` J-P. Rosen
2011-02-09 18:55                                               ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 22:03                                                 ` J-P. Rosen
2011-02-09 22:25                                                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-10  3:07                                                     ` Adam Beneschan
2011-02-10  6:09                                                     ` J-P. Rosen
2011-02-10 17:48                                                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 21:30                                             ` Simon Wright
2011-02-09 22:05                                               ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 18:42                                           ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-08 21:09                                     ` Shark8
2011-02-08 21:25                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 21:46                                         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-08 21:59                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 18:44                                             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 18:54                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 18:59                                                 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 19:21                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 19:30                                                     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 19:44                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 20:08                                                         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-08 21:49                                         ` Simon Clubley
2011-02-08 21:51                                           ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-08 22:13                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 18:04                                               ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-08 22:12                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 23:03                                             ` Simon Clubley
2011-02-08 22:30                                         ` Shark8
2011-02-09 10:19                                         ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-09 15:09                                         ` KK6GM
2011-02-09  0:13                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-09  1:56                                         ` Shark8
2011-02-09  2:33                                           ` Adam Beneschan
2011-02-09 15:49                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-10  3:29                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-21  7:17                                             ` David Thompson
2011-02-08 20:04                                   ` Simon Clubley
2011-02-08 20:44                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-08 21:19                                       ` Simon Clubley
2011-02-09  9:21                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 15:20                                           ` KK6GM
2011-02-09 16:39                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 16:46                                               ` KK6GM
2011-02-09 17:15                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 17:46                                                   ` Shark8
2011-02-09 18:02                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 18:17                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 18:34                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2011-02-09 18:52                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 19:48                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 20:09                                                             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 20:52                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 21:45                                                               ` Simon Wright
2011-02-09 22:13                                                                 ` Shark8
2011-02-09 18:53                                                   ` KK6GM
2011-02-09 19:20                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 21:31                                       ` Shark8
2011-02-08 21:50                                         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-08 21:56                                           ` Simon Clubley
2011-02-08 22:41                                             ` Shark8
2011-02-09 18:12                                               ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 18:29                                                 ` Shark8
2011-02-09 18:49                                                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-09 18:36                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-09 18:51                                                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2011-02-21  7:17                                         ` David Thompson
2011-02-08 20:55                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 21:26                                   ` Jeffrey Carter
2011-02-09  7:59                                   ` Mart van de Wege
2011-02-09  9:16                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2011-02-09 10:28                                       ` Mart van de Wege
2011-02-09 15:57                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-10  3:36                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-10  6:35                                             ` J-P. Rosen
2011-02-08 10:11                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 10:16                             ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-08 10:36                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 10:43                                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2011-02-08 12:20                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 20:21                             ` Shark8
2011-02-08 21:46                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 22:35                                 ` Shark8
2011-02-10  2:18                             ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-08 15:36               ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 16:44                 ` Adam Beneschan
2011-02-08 17:13                   ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-08 18:33                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2011-02-08 18:39                       ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-03 17:43 ` John McCormick
2011-02-12  4:47 ` Edward Fish
2011-02-12  8:02   ` Niklas Holsti
2011-02-14  0:09   ` Hyman Rosen
2011-02-15  0:25     ` Randy Brukardt
2011-02-19  4:21       ` Edward Fish
2011-02-13  1:04 ` anon
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