* Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books. @ 1997-04-12 0:00 Kenneth W. Sodemann 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Kenneth W. Sodemann @ 1997-04-12 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Folks; I am looking for comments on ObjectAda, and also suggestions on books. For a little background: I have done professional development in Ada83 using Rational Apex (embedded avionics systems), and Borland C++ (Windows based satalite communications systems), and have done "hobbiest" type work using Watcom C++ (OS/2 & Windows), gcc (Linux), and Turbo Pascal (DOS). I am looking at ObjectAda as something I can mess around with at home to bring me up to speed in Ada95. Also, my ideal system would have a nice IDE, and good windows support. So, with this in mind, I am looking for experianced opinions on ObjectAda. I am also looking for input on good Ada95 books. From the information on Anonix's web site, and from talking to their sales people, it sounds like the way I would like to go. However, one item from the RR Software web site kind of bugs me (quoted below): "ObjectAda: We have tested the demo with the 7.0 version of ObjectAda Professional Edition. This appears to be the most recent version available. ObjectAda still has significant problems with overriding inherited subprograms. Therefore, we haven't provided a version for ObjectAda. Aonix does not seem interested in fixing our bug reports." So, if anyone has any suggestions or comments, I would love to hear them. Thanks; -- Ken Sodemann stuffle@pcii.net http://users.mwci.net/~stuffle When replying, remove the "**" from the start of the e-mail address ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books. 1997-04-12 0:00 Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books Kenneth W. Sodemann @ 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Wood 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Tom Moran 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Wood 2 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Larry Kilgallen @ 1997-04-12 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <334f01eb.95806760@news.mwci.net>, **stuffle@pcii.net (Kenneth W. Sodemann) writes: > From the information on Anonix's web site, and from talking to their > sales people, it sounds like the way I would like to go. However, one > item from the RR Software web site kind of bugs me (quoted below): > > "ObjectAda: We have tested the demo with the 7.0 version of ObjectAda > Professional Edition. This appears to be the most > recent version available. ObjectAda still has significant problems > with overriding inherited subprograms. Therefore, we haven't > provided a version for ObjectAda. Aonix does not seem interested in > fixing our bug reports." I would agree that Aonix does not do a good job of communicating with Windows customers who are on normal maintenance (yearly fee, single seat). They have a new version due soon so presumably there will be bugs fixed, but I wish they had not spent postage mailing brochures about things I do not want (all their products which are not Ada compilers) and had instead sent a one page newsletter about progress toward V7.1. Every time, and by every method, when I have tried to contact them about the software, the overall impression I get is that they view the purpose of the communication to be a way to add to their marketing database. Now none of this is meant to denigrate the quality of their compilers, and Aonix has various knowlegeable and helpful people contributing to this newsgroup, but their formal interface to customers needs polishing. Larry Kilgallen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books. 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen @ 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Wood 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen [not found] ` <3367a3a7.3081470@news.sydney.apana.org.au> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Dave Wood @ 1997-04-13 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Larry Kilgallen wrote: > I would agree that Aonix does not do a good job of communicating with > Windows customers who are on normal maintenance (yearly fee, single seat). Perhaps not, and your critiques are certainly welcome. I will address this further below. > They have a new version due soon so presumably there will be bugs fixed, > but I wish they had not spent postage mailing brochures about things I > do not want (all their products which are not Ada compilers) Mind reading can be diffult. :) > and had > instead sent a one page newsletter about progress toward V7.1. Again, below. > Every time, and by every method, when I have tried to contact them > about the software, the overall impression I get is that they view > the purpose of the communication to be a way to add to their marketing > database. I find this puzzling, Larry, as I know that I have personally communicated with you on multiple occasions and I think answered all questions put to me. I know that you have also communicated directly with engineers and support personnel. None of us have any direct access to a marketing database, and therefore our only goal in communicating with you is to try to answer your questions. On the other hand, if you are talking about communications with telesales people (which I know you have also done) you might be more satisfied if you alter your expectations accordingly, as telesales people, of necessity, have a more limited knowledge and more restictive parameters within which to operate. If you have something *else* in mind, do feel free to contact me directly and we'll get to the heart of it. > Now none of this is meant to denigrate the quality of their compilers, > and Aonix has various knowlegeable and helpful people contributing > to this newsgroup, but their formal interface to customers needs > polishing. This is a difficult issue. Dedicated customer support is quite expensive because it involves actual time from real people. As such, we offer multiple levels of support to try to meet a variety of different needs and expectations. I won't bore the newsgroup with specifics, but anyone interested in more detail on options is invited to email me directly. What we intend to offer for all customers, regardless of support level, is an interactive forum for communications, much as we had with ActivAda. Normally, I would be using this forum to communicate status and to entertain interactive Q&A. Unfortunately, we've had ongoing technical problems related to some freeware list server software (sometimes you get what you pay for), and that forum has been non-functional for a few frustrating months now. We are working hard on a resolution, and I expect a breakthrough in the near future. While awaiting this resolution, I had considered making status announcements about 7.1 here on c.l.a, but this has two drawbacks: (1) it might be considered rude by non-ObjectAda customers and/ or competing companies, and (2) a lot of customers don't read this newsgroup, at least on a regular basis. I also considered a newsletter, but I decided that the timing would not work out for a number of reasons, most particularly because by the time I could pull together a newsletter for an audience the size of the ObjectAda user base, 7.1 will already be shipping anyway. So, in summary, here's the status. ObjectAda for Windows 7.1 is "out of engineering" and is currently undergoing qualification. It's in excellent shape and a substantial improvement over what already was (IMHO) a great product. I expect qualification to be complete by the end of this month, and with a two-week production cycle, we should begin shipping subscription upgrades approximately mid-May. I am most happy to entertain *product* or *status* inquiries by email. I answer all inquiries that I actually receive (which is quite a lot, believe me), although it can take a few days or sometimes weeks if I need to track down answers that I don't already know. That said, questions that come to me which are best directed to customer support or to our problem database will, in fact, be directed to those avenues. So, if you have a problem or technical question, please contact our support department at 1-800-97-AONIX (in the US; check your documentation or our web site for international offices), or send email to adasupport@aonix.com. If you have a question about product status or plans, feel free to email me at dpw@aonix.com. Please note that much of this information is available in our FAQ file. At present, you can obtain this FAQ file from our customer support department, or email me a request and I will send it as a Word attachment. After it is updated for 7.1, we will provide it on the 7.1 CD and on our web site, but for now the 7.0 version is available by mail or email attachment only. If FOR ANY REASON you feel you are not getting the responsiveness that you need from anyone at Aonix regarding ObjectAda for Windows, I invite you to email me directly, as this concerns me very much. I will investigate and escalate as appropriate. As always, we appreciate your patronage, as do our children and significant others. -- Dave Wood -- Product Manager, ObjectAda for Windows -- Aonix - "Ada with an Attitude" -- http://www.aonix.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books. 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Wood @ 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen [not found] ` <3367a3a7.3081470@news.sydney.apana.org.au> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Larry Kilgallen @ 1997-04-13 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <33509308.3017@aonix.com>, Dave Wood <dpw@aonix.com> writes: > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> Every time, and by every method, when I have tried to contact them >> about the software, the overall impression I get is that they view >> the purpose of the communication to be a way to add to their marketing >> database. > > I find this puzzling, Larry, as I know that I have personally > communicated with you on multiple occasions and I think answered > all questions put to me. I know that you have also communicated > directly with engineers and support personnel. Sorry, I meant to indicate "formal channels" in my comment. Indeed, sending email to Dave Wood works very well, but I consider that a "back door" approach for use only in emergencies. I do not believe I have ever gotten a responsive answer from email or written comments to the general customer service addresses. > If you have something *else* in mind, do feel free to contact > me directly and we'll get to the heart of it. I certainly would if it were critical, but I do not want to deter from overall product management efforts. I have made particular long-term suggestions/requests which you have been dealing with, and I view those as much more important than smaller bug reports which are properly sent through formal channels. > Unfortunately, we've had ongoing technical problems related > to some freeware list server software (sometimes you get what you > pay for), and that forum has been non-functional for a few > frustrating months now. We are working hard on a resolution, and > I expect a breakthrough in the near future. Ah ! _That_ is a really relevant piece of news about the goals of the support environment which clears up some mystery. Although you sometimes get what you pay for, it is also possible to get less than what you pay for, as I know folk who have had similar trouble with highly-priced software for similar purposes. > While awaiting this resolution, I had considered making status > announcements about 7.1 here on c.l.a, but this has two drawbacks: > (1) it might be considered rude by non-ObjectAda customers and/ or > competing companies, and (2) a lot of customers don't read this > newsgroup, at least on a regular basis. I agree that c.l.a is inappropriate for unsolicited status reports, although we all appreciate your presence here and contribution of this _solicited_ status report. V7.1 is more important that a newsletter, but sometime in the future you may have the time. Larry Kilgallen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
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* Re: Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books. [not found] ` <3367a3a7.3081470@news.sydney.apana.org.au> @ 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Ginny Wood 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Dave Wood 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Ginny Wood @ 1997-04-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) rajt@gco.apana.org.au wrote: > > Someone who claimed to be Dave Wood <dpw@aonix.com> wrote: > > >Perhaps not, and your critiques are certainly welcome. > . > . > { large content free post deleted } > > After reading that 99% content -free message, I now understand why [blah blah blah] content-free: adj. (1) A post which exists solely for the purpose of declaring another post to be content-free, without adding anything of value or even specific useful critique; (2) The life of one who gets a strange thrill from making such posts, with the intent of inducing flames which create heat but not light. irony: n. See (1) above. pitiful: adj. See (2) above. closure: n. My attitude on this subject. -- Dave Wood -- Product Manager, ObjectAda for Windows -- Aonix - "Ada: To Infinity and Beyond!" -- http://www.aonix.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books. [not found] ` <3367a3a7.3081470@news.sydney.apana.org.au> 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Ginny Wood @ 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Dave Wood 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Dave Wood @ 1997-04-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) rajt@gco.apana.org.au wrote: > > Someone who claimed to be Dave Wood <dpw@aonix.com> wrote: > > >Perhaps not, and your critiques are certainly welcome. > . > . > { large content free post deleted } > > After reading that 99% content -free message, I now understand why [blah blah blah] content-free: adj. (1) A post which exists solely for the purpose of declaring another post to be content-free, without adding anything of value or even specific useful critique; (2) The life of one who gets a strange thrill from making such posts, with the intent of inducing flames which create heat but not light. irony: n. See (1) above. pitiful: adj. See (2) above. closure: n. My attitude on this subject. -- Dave Wood -- Product Manager, ObjectAda for Windows -- Aonix - "Ada: To Infinity and Beyond!" -- http://www.aonix.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books. 1997-04-12 0:00 Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books Kenneth W. Sodemann 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen @ 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Tom Moran 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Wood 2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Tom Moran @ 1997-04-12 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) >item from the RR Software web site kind of bugs me (quoted below): >"ObjectAda still has significant problems with overriding inherited >subprograms. Therefore, we haven't provided a version for ObjectAda." I think that's an old quote, though the problem persists. Of three spurious fatal errors ObjectAda generated (nultiple times) trying to compile Claw in early December, one was fixed by a patch downloadable from the Aonix BBS before the end of February (when there was a SigAda meeting hosted by Aonix and I passed around the remaining two bugs). My understanding is that those two remain. They show up as spurious error messages saying "dispatching operation must be subtype conformant with the inherited subprogram it overrides" "Overlap in static initializers: Initializer offset = 44 is less than previous one = 48, overlapping initializers not written" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books. 1997-04-12 0:00 Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books Kenneth W. Sodemann 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Tom Moran @ 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Wood 2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Dave Wood @ 1997-04-13 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Kenneth W. Sodemann wrote: > > > So, with this in mind, I am looking for experianced opinions on > ObjectAda. I am also looking for input on good Ada95 books. > > From the information on Anonix's web site, and from talking to their > sales people, it sounds like the way I would like to go. However, one > item from the RR Software web site kind of bugs me (quoted below): > > "ObjectAda: We have tested the demo with the 7.0 version of ObjectAda > Professional Edition. This appears to be the most > recent version available. ObjectAda still has significant problems > with overriding inherited subprograms. Therefore, we haven't > provided a version for ObjectAda. Aonix does not seem interested in > fixing our bug reports." I can't comment personally on the specific issue without investigation, but the notion that we aren't "interested" is of course silly. (I'm astonished that RR would put something like this on their web site. It strikes me as somewhat unprofessional.) However, as with any product that is used by many thousands of people (a situation that is incomprehensible to most Ada suppliers) it is utterly impossible to address immediately every issue raised by every user. However, we do log everything reported through formal channels and we do prioritize them and address as much as we can on an ongoing basis, even if the issues at hand are reported by competing companies. The list of fixes, corrections, enhancements, and additions between 7.0 and 7.1 is quite extensive, and the product, quite frankly, speaks for itself. As a point of comparison, I've had outstanding bug reports with Borland C++ since 1989! And don't even get me started on Microsoft. -- Dave Wood -- Product Manager, ObjectAda for Windows -- Aonix - "Ada with an Attitude" -- http://www.aonix.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1997-04-21 0:00 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1997-04-12 0:00 Looking for comments on ObjectAda and books Kenneth W. Sodemann 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Wood 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen [not found] ` <3367a3a7.3081470@news.sydney.apana.org.au> 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Ginny Wood 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Dave Wood 1997-04-12 0:00 ` Tom Moran 1997-04-13 0:00 ` Dave Wood
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