comp.lang.ada
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: johnb@searchtech.com (John Baldwin)
Subject: Re: chief programmer team organizations
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1991 20:06:22 GMT	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1991Jun25.200622.10212@searchtech.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 25649@well.sf.ca.us

John Nagle said in a previous post:

   JN> Real chief programmer teams are very rare. I've never heard of one
   JN> other than in Brooks' book.

   JN> It's organized like a surgical team.  The chief
   JN> programmer personally writes most of the delivered code,
   JN> and everything else is set up to facilitate this.


jls@netcom.COM (Jim Showalter) replied:

  JS> Tommyrot! How on earth is a single human being going to write "most",
  JS> or, for that matter, even a FRACTION, of the code on a project of
  JS> significant size? I'm talking here of things like the multi-MILLION
  JS> line FAA rewrite of the U.S. air traffic control system.


And finally,
In article <25649@well.sf.ca.us> nagle@well.sf.ca.us (John Nagle) writes:

>      But what Brooks was talking about was a job of the size of an
>operating system kernel, a compiler, or a typical shrink-wrapped
>application.


Actually, going back to Brooks' book, what he was talking about WERE
very large systems consisting of many software components.  I think
you are both right and are "looking at different parts of the same
elephant."

I believe the idea was to have a small committee consisting of a cross-
section of the Chief Programmers, who would be in charge of the
architecture of the ENTIRE system.  We all know (I hope) that big
committees never get any work done.  :-)

The entire system might be composed of 20 or more large modules.
For a mainframe's system software, a "large module" might be a
compiler, or the file system, or whatever.  (Case in point, I doubt
that the FAA system is one big executable or even as few as 20.)

The "architects" define the "grand vision" of the SYSTEM, not the
blocks.  They only ensure there is a consistent set of interfaces,
and that the work goes in the right direction.  The real work belongs
to the CPT's: One Team Per Module.  Thus, the chief writes most of the
code IN THAT MODULE.

The problems that can involve this dichotomy between the "architects"
and "the rest of the designers" might be more easily understood by
looking at the following example, also taken from Brooks as he talks
about "Big Oz," the OS/360 operating system, which took 5000 person-years
to develop....

The linker for this OS was the culmination of everything its designers
could possibly know about static overlay linking.  This is remarkably
funny, because the operating system could dynamically allocate system
memory and didn't need a linker with fancy overlay capabilities.  But the
linker team didn't know that, so they did all that work for nought,
and ended up with a linker that was slower than any of the compilers!





Followup's to comp.software-eng, where this really belongs.


-- 
John Baldwin              | johnb@searchtech.com
Search Technology, Inc.   | srchtec!johnb@gatech.edu
Atlanta, Georgia          | johnb%srchtec.uucp@mathcs.emory.edu

  parent reply	other threads:[~1991-06-25 20:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1991-06-12 16:47 c++ vs ada results alan dare
1991-06-12 19:15 ` Paul Martz
1991-06-12 20:17 ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-13 20:49   ` Paul Kohlmiller
1991-06-13 23:12     ` Bruce Jones
1991-06-14 17:56   ` GNU c++ bashing (was Re: c++ vs ada results) Eli Brandt
1991-06-16  2:48   ` c++ vs ada results Russ Nelson
1991-06-16  4:10   ` Sean Eric Fagan
1991-06-18  4:17     ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-18  8:33       ` Sean Eric Fagan
1991-06-18 21:53         ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-18 12:28       ` Mats Henricson
1991-06-18 22:06         ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-19 15:07           ` Dan Weinreb
1991-06-19 17:00           ` Doug Smith
1991-06-20 14:08             ` Steve Juneau
1991-06-20 19:56               ` Robert I. Eachus
1991-06-21 17:27                 ` David M Geary
1991-06-20 22:09               ` Paul Stachour
1991-06-21 17:03                 ` David M Geary
1991-06-23  3:14                   ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-26 22:13                 ` Dan Weinreb
1991-06-21 22:01               ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-20 14:35             ` chief programmer team organizations was (c++ vs ada results) Alex Blakemore
1991-06-21 12:40               ` chief programmer team organizations was (c++ vs ada results)H house ron
1991-06-21 15:47                 ` chief programmer team organizations Joseph Beckenbach {Adapter Software Release Engr}
1991-06-21 22:25                 ` chief programmer team organizations was (c++ vs ada results)H Jim Showalter
1991-06-26 22:18                   ` Dan Weinreb
1991-06-21 22:04               ` chief programmer team organizations was (c++ vs ada results) Lars P. Fischer
1991-06-23  3:17                 ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-24 13:23                 ` Jim Hargrove
1991-06-21 22:21               ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-22  2:14               ` John Nagle
1991-06-23  3:23                 ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-23 13:21                   ` David Feustel
1991-06-23 18:54                     ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-27 15:30                     ` Dan Weinreb
1991-06-24  4:00                   ` Marco S Hyman
1991-06-24 20:23                     ` Stanley Friesen
1991-06-26  0:37                       ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-24 20:29                     ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-24 18:29                   ` John Nagle
1991-06-25 18:38                     ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-25 19:30                       ` Christopher Warack
1991-06-25 20:06                     ` John Baldwin [this message]
1991-06-24  9:36                 ` George C. Harrison, Norfolk State University
1991-06-25 13:42                   ` Harry Erwin
1991-06-26 16:15                 ` Bob Martin
1991-06-19 18:36           ` c++ vs ada results Jim Showalter
1991-06-19 15:01         ` Dan Weinreb
1991-06-24  2:29         ` Andrew Dunstan
1991-06-24 10:06           ` David Emery
1991-06-24 13:16           ` Mats Henricson
1991-06-25  4:29           ` Tom McClory
1991-06-26  0:35             ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-26  1:26             ` Andrew Dunstan
1991-06-26 22:47               ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-27 15:47                 ` Alex Blakemore
1991-06-27 23:58                   ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-25 19:27           ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-23 23:59       ` CBW Consulting
1991-06-24 20:11         ` Jim Showalter
1991-06-12 21:27 ` Dan L. Pierson
replies disabled

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox