Re: Pricing Ada out of Education

Re: Pricing Ada out of Education

[Tom Reid x4505]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Richard Pattis.  I have wanted to
use Ada for a translator construction course that I teach.  The university
does not use Ada in any of its classes now and I am off-campus so the 
site license route is out.  I need a mechanism that I can inform the 
vendor the students in the course so that they can order directly or I have
to be distributor and collect from the students.  Needless to say, I
prefer the first.

The price is another thing.  After requiring a text book, I still need 
a language tutorial book and the compiler.  We are starting to look at 
real money.  Last year, I was able to have the students buy the Jensen
and Partners, Inc. Modula-2 student pak for $50.  It included a nice
tutorial.  I faxed my student role to JPI so they knew who was legit.  
This method kept the student cost to under $100 (barely) and I thought
that was acceptable.  I have also used shareware compilers.

The Ada vendors I approached were not as accommodating.  Part of this
might be that JPI seriously targets college campuses whereas I do not
see the Ada vendors doing that.  I would love to see an Ada vendor take
an agressive marketing fling at colleges and I would reward then by 
trying to make Ada a serious part of the curriculum.

Thomas F. Reid, Ph. D.                   (703)818-4505 (work)
Contel Technology Center                 (703)742-8720 (home)
15000 Conference Center Drive            Net: reid@ctc.contel.com
P.O. Box 10814  
Chantilly, Va.  22021-3808

Re: Pricing Ada out of Education

[Dr. Orville R. Weyrich]

In article <9101042209.AA02201@ctc.contel.com> reid@CTC.CONTEL.COM (Tom Reid  x4505) writes:
>
>The Ada vendors I approached were not as accommodating.  Part of this
>might be that JPI seriously targets college campuses whereas I do not
>see the Ada vendors doing that.  I would love to see an Ada vendor take
>an agressive marketing fling at colleges and I would reward then by 
>trying to make Ada a serious part of the curriculum.
>

I think that Meridian Ada has a package that is agressively targeted at
college campuses.

Re: Pricing Ada out of Education

[Billy Yow 283-4009]

Did you check with Merdian.  They have a version of their compiler called 
Ada Student that was only 50.00 dollars last year.  The compiler has some
limitations so that could be a problem.  Also there newest compiler the AdaZ 
product has a Hypertext version of the LRM which is very nice.  The compiler is
selling for $149.00 (To go up to $495.00), I don't know if they are
offering any
educational discounts or not.

I am using their professional version to develop an application of
25,000 lines and have also used it with the STARS X-Bidding and
DESQview/X.

						Bill Yow

The yow@magic.Berkeley.EDU is a lie.

Re: Pricing Ada out of Education

[David Erickson]

In article <9852@as0c.sei.cmu.edu> ae@sei.cmu.edu (Arthur Evans) writes:
>If you are a college or university looking for an Ada compiler, by all
>means talk with the folks at Tartan.  They are giving away, *FREE*, Ada
>compilers for VAX/VMS and Sun-3 running Unix.  They charge for support.
>Call Susan Englert for details, at 412-856-3600.

>Art Evans

Actually, this is just a marketing ploy - the support is required, for
a minimum of three years.  For example, a site license would cost
$5,000 per year, or $15,000.  Support is also available on a cpu/server
basis (individual cpu cost is $500/yr, individual server cost is $2500/yr).

-Dave Erickson

Pricing Ada out of Education

[Richard Pattis]

  Many schools are beginning to look beyond Pascal and C as their language of
instruction.  Many successful authors are looking beyond Pascal and C for
writing introductory, intermediate, and advanced Computer Science and
Engineering textbooks.

  The two main contenders (leaving out the "odder" languages of Scheme, ML,
and Smalltalk) seem to be Ada and C++.  I don't want to start any discussion
of the merits of these two languages, or of the quality of various language
implementations. But I would like to illustrate some pricing strategies that
make C++ very attractive to Universities (and hence authors who want to write
books).

I was quoted these prices today (1/3/91) on the phone.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vendor: Borland (408) 438-5300 (contact customer support)


Product Name    Retail		Education

C++		   200		       70
Professional	   300		      140
Small Model	(Ed only)              40 (64K data/64K code)


C++ Lab pack	10 C++, 1 Doc: $350

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vendor: Zortech C++ (800) 848-8408

		Retail		Education

Compiler	   200		       75
Developer	   450		      200


Compiler pack	10 Compiler,  1 Doc  300  (+30/doc extra; up to 9 more)
Developer pack	10 Developer, 1 Doc  700  (+60/doc extra; up to 9 more)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Pricing Ada out of Education

[Arthur Evans]

If you are a college or university looking for an Ada compiler, by all
means talk with the folks at Tartan.  They are giving away, *FREE*, Ada
compilers for VAX/VMS and Sun-3 running Unix.  They charge for support.
Call Susan Englert for details, at 412-856-3600.

I was previously employed at Tartan and have left.  While at Tartan I
made heavy use of the Sun product and liked it very much; I have little
experience on VMS.

Art Evans
Software Engineering Institute
Carnegie Mellon University

My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer.

Re: Pricing Ada out of Education

[Richard Pattis]

In article <9852@as0c.sei.cmu.edu>, ae@sei.cmu.edu (Arthur Evans) writes:
> If you are a college or university looking for an Ada compiler, by all
> means talk with the folks at Tartan.  They are giving away, *FREE*, Ada
> compilers for VAX/VMS and Sun-3 running Unix.  They charge for support.
> Call Susan Englert for details, at 412-856-3600.
> 

Art should have written, "They *CHARGE* for support."  I think that Tartan
has taken a step in the right direction, but it still costs about $1K-$4K
to *USE* their compiler (at least last time I checked, right after their
announcement).

I have recently written to an SEI group involved in kickstarting Ada in
education, suggesting that someone (compiler vendors, DoD, etc) subsidize
compiler use in education by allowing schools with a genuine interest to
use an Ada compiler, absolutely *FREE OF CHARGES*, for a year.

Rich Pattis