Re: ada IDE

[Jeffrey Creem <jeff@thecreems.com>]

Chip and Allie Orange wrote:
> "Jeffrey Creem" <jeff@thecreems.com> wrote in message 
> news:da9gh3-p7k.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com...
> 
>>Ananth the Boss wrote:
>>
>>>we are involved in development of safety critical software for flight
>>>apps. can ny one say which is the best IDE for ADA for development of
>>>flight software
>>>
>>
>>If you are doing safety critical software (assuming you mean something 
>>like DO-178b level a or b) then the IDE is really secondary to the 
>>compiler/runtime. Pick that first and it will help guide you to an IDE. 
>>You probably can't pick the compiler/runtime (or perhaps OS) until you 
>>know what your hardware platform is (unless there is some flexibility 
>>there).
>>
>>If you select something like Greenhills Ada with the Integrity OS then it 
>>would be silly to consider GPS.
>>
>>There is really not enough in the question to respond to this all that 
>>clearly.
>>
>>
>>The high level choices will be something from
>>
>>Greenhills/Greenhills
>>www.ghs.com (perhaps integrity (OS) with AdaMULT (compiler).
>>or
>>
>>WindRiver/AdaCore
>>www.wrs.com with www.gnat.com (vxWorks with the ARINC 653 with GNAT).
>>
>>or
>>
>>BAE Systems/DDC-I
>>
>>http://platformsolutions.na.baesystems.com:8080/CsLeos/CsLEOS.jsp
>>
>>or
>>
>>Aonix/Aonix
>>
>>http://www.aonix.com/objectada.html
>>
>>
>>There might also be someting in the lynxos/GNAT cagegory to consider..not 
>>sure.
>>
>>In any case, these seem to be the big players in the area.
>>
> 
> I'm just learning Ada for some after-hours programming (not my day job).  I 
> have a relative who works for the IBM/Rational group which puts out the Ada 
> Apex system.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't they make your list?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Chip
> 
> 
> 

Good question. Truthfully, I probably should have included them.

I still use Apex in my day job (an older version of it)..There certainly 
are some nice features about it even though (at least the version I use) 
is really starting to show its age it is interesting that it has taken 
many years for other languages/tools/ide's to catch up to the level of 
integration that Apex had more than 10 years ago.

So, there certainly are some positives for this tool suite.

As for the negatives that probably partially led to me just forgetting 
to list them...

It appears that every time you contact ibm/rational sales to buy a tool 
they want to "craft a solution" for you that involves both expensive 
tools, expensive support services and a pile of things you don't want or 
need.


For example, take a look at the "off the shelf" options for Apex

http://www3.software.ibm.com/ibmdl/pub/software/rational/web/datasheets/ada.pdf

There are four choices.

The base edition is not right for the original question since one can 
reasonably assume the need of a cross compiler (because this is embedded 
flight software).

The "Embedded Developer" edition would just about fit the bill, but it 
is listed as "Solaris" only in the PDF file. This is generally a code 
word for "dead product we only still list because we still can manage to 
pawn off licenses on some legacy customer".

Each of the other two versions have "Enterprise" in the title. This is a 
code word for "big expensive tool that includes a lot of stuff that you 
probably don't want but allows is to bundle things to prevent you from 
justifying the use of the tools you really want from a different vendor".

In this case, it means it includes Rational Rose, TestMate, etc. (And of 
course Rose is slowly heading out since there are newer IBM design tools).


There are probably projects/companies for which this approach to selling 
tools works out really well. For me, it seems like their Ada products 
(or truthfully any of their single products) get lost in the noise of 
the "craft a solution" approach that the sales staff shows up with when 
talking about tools.

Here is another example. Interested in trials/beta's of the software.

Go here
http://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/download/home.jsp?s=p

Hmm. No apex, no Ada, nothing embedded at all. But if you are 
maintaining a website  there is all sorts of stuff here.. I wonder where 
people get the idea that there is no commitment from the vendor to 
support the product...must just be me.

Now again, to be fair, this probably has as much to do with the types of 
customers that want those tools as it does with the commitment tool any 
particular tool...

Finally, here is the last reason.

Go to www.ibm.com - See the word Ada on the page...Hmm... Nope. Ok..Big 
company, click on software. See the work ada on the page...Nope..Ok big 
company. Click on products  by category. See the word Ada on the page? 
Nope, ok. Lots of tools. Click "Traditional Programming Languages". See 
the word Ada on the page? Yes!.. Yippie Got there. Of course, once you 
clock the "Learn About" link, the most up to date thing on the page 
looks like some announcement about IBM Rational Ada Developer Interface 
for AXI which is bindings for X-Windows Motif.....It feels so 90's.


Finally, even after a lot of clicking, one never does see any mention of 
DO-178B/Ada on any page and remember that was what the original poster 
was looking for.


Now, compare this to the other vendors I listed.

www.ghs.com - Ada on front page. DO-178B on front page

www.gnat.com - Ada allover the front page, new vxWorks on the front page 
(Active development). Ada 2006 information on front page (Active 
development) safety-critical on front page (original poster question). 
do-178b on front page.


csLEOS link combined with DDCI-compiler.
Ok. DO-178B on front page of Csleos link (no area but this is the OS 
company), Going to the compiler vendor Ada on front page. Safety 
critical on front page.


Going to Aonix. Ada on front page, DO-178B on front page.

So, all-in-all I think I stand by my original list which excluded IBM 
Apex. If the poster had just asked for "list some Ada IDEs" then maybe I 
would have listed them even giving the general concerns I have with the 
vendor.

But given that the original question was safety critical Ada, I think it 
was the right choice.