* C++ on the Down Slope? @ 2012-01-11 7:08 Charles H. Sampson 2012-01-11 8:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Charles H. Sampson @ 2012-01-11 7:08 UTC (permalink / raw) According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++ skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year. Could this be an indication that the enemy is faltering? No, there's no indication of how they came up with 488,992. Charlie -- Nobody in this country got rich on his own. You built a factory--good. But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for. You hired workers we all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory. But take a hunk and pay it forward. Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 7:08 C++ on the Down Slope? Charles H. Sampson @ 2012-01-11 8:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2012-01-11 8:50 ` Martin 2012-01-11 9:00 ` Maciej Sobczak 2012-01-11 12:32 ` Martin Dowie 2 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Dmitry A. Kazakov @ 2012-01-11 8:24 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:08:12 -0800, Charles H. Sampson wrote: > According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++ > skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year. One probably should count C, C++, C#, D(?) together. > Could this be an > indication that the enemy is faltering? Enemy? There is a huge growing pool of bad languages. If C++ ceased to exist there would always be another to fill its place. People like to invent and use bad languages. -- Regards, Dmitry A. Kazakov http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 8:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov @ 2012-01-11 8:50 ` Martin 2012-01-11 10:29 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Martin @ 2012-01-11 8:50 UTC (permalink / raw) On Jan 11, 8:24 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de> wrote: > On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:08:12 -0800, Charles H. Sampson wrote: > > According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++ > > skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year. > > One probably should count C, C++, C#, D(?) together. Never understood the inclusion of C# as a member of the 'C/C++' family...besides the "{" & "}" syntax, the semantics seems rather different... -- Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 8:50 ` Martin @ 2012-01-11 10:29 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2012-01-11 11:50 ` Martin 2012-01-12 11:53 ` Maciej Sobczak 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Dmitry A. Kazakov @ 2012-01-11 10:29 UTC (permalink / raw) On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 00:50:14 -0800 (PST), Martin wrote: > On Jan 11, 8:24�am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de> > wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:08:12 -0800, Charles H. Sampson wrote: >>> � � �According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++ >>> skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year. >> >> One probably should count C, C++, C#, D(?) together. > > Never understood the inclusion of C# as a member of the 'C/C++' > family...besides the "{" & "}" syntax, the semantics seems rather > different... The crowd choosing C# now would likely chose C++ before. Both respond to the same attitude to programming. -- Regards, Dmitry A. Kazakov http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 10:29 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov @ 2012-01-11 11:50 ` Martin 2012-01-11 13:21 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2012-01-11 13:26 ` Georg Bauhaus 2012-01-12 11:53 ` Maciej Sobczak 1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Martin @ 2012-01-11 11:50 UTC (permalink / raw) On Jan 11, 10:29 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de> wrote: > On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 00:50:14 -0800 (PST), Martin wrote: > > On Jan 11, 8:24 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de> > > wrote: > >> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:08:12 -0800, Charles H. Sampson wrote: > >>> According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++ > >>> skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year. > > >> One probably should count C, C++, C#, D(?) together. > > > Never understood the inclusion of C# as a member of the 'C/C++' > > family...besides the "{" & "}" syntax, the semantics seems rather > > different... > > The crowd choosing C# now would likely chose C++ before. Both respond to > the same attitude to programming. Maybe...but there are those that moved from C->Java but you wouldn't include them and it have curly-brackets and seems more similar to C# than C++... C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just can't... -- Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 11:50 ` Martin @ 2012-01-11 13:21 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2012-01-11 13:26 ` Georg Bauhaus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Dmitry A. Kazakov @ 2012-01-11 13:21 UTC (permalink / raw) On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 03:50:43 -0800 (PST), Martin wrote: > On Jan 11, 10:29�am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de> > wrote: >> On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 00:50:14 -0800 (PST), Martin wrote: >>> On Jan 11, 8:24 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de> >>> wrote: >>>> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:08:12 -0800, Charles H. Sampson wrote: >>>>> According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++ >>>>> skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year. >> >>>> One probably should count C, C++, C#, D(?) together. >> >>> Never understood the inclusion of C# as a member of the 'C/C++' >>> family...besides the "{" & "}" syntax, the semantics seems rather >>> different... >> >> The crowd choosing C# now would likely chose C++ before. Both respond to >> the same attitude to programming. > > Maybe...but there are those that moved from C->Java but you wouldn't > include them and it have curly-brackets and seems more similar to C# > than C++... I think that Java was different. It was never thought as a general purpose language. Would-be-C people were rather opposed to it. C# managed to gain a wider acceptance among them. > C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just > can't... I group people, not languages. If you miraculously removed C++, they would not run for Ada. If they are running from C++ now, then it is for something worse than C++. C++ had some brighter concepts, which is why it never managed to push C aside. There is no decline of C, I suppose. -- Regards, Dmitry A. Kazakov http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 11:50 ` Martin 2012-01-11 13:21 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov @ 2012-01-11 13:26 ` Georg Bauhaus 2012-01-11 14:26 ` Martin 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2012-01-11 13:26 UTC (permalink / raw) On 11.01.12 12:50, Martin wrote: > C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just > can't... Part of the reason why C# is sometimes counted among the nominal C languages is deliberate, I think: choosing the letter C blends optimally with Microsoft's language marketing initiatives. They have always known how to attract by assimilating popular ideas into their offerings. Popularity correlates with an increase in likelihood of programmers taking curly braces for a sign of C quality. The reason that Netscape's browser based Lisp was named Javascript and the reason why it is using C style syntax, too, is similar; that's a fact insofar as some Netscape official once explained it this way, though I haven't got a link handy, sorry. Suppose A# wouldn't have all this 'Ref nonsense... :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 13:26 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2012-01-11 14:26 ` Martin 2012-01-11 16:28 ` Bill Findlay 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Martin @ 2012-01-11 14:26 UTC (permalink / raw) On Jan 11, 1:26 pm, Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauh...@futureapps.de> wrote: > On 11.01.12 12:50, Martin wrote: > > > C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just > > can't... > > Part of the reason why C# is sometimes counted among the > nominal C languages is deliberate, I think: choosing the letter > C blends optimally with Microsoft's language marketing initiatives. > They have always known how to attract by assimilating popular ideas > into their offerings. Popularity correlates with an increase in > likelihood of programmers taking curly braces for a sign of > C quality. > > The reason that Netscape's browser based Lisp was named > Javascript and the reason why it is using C style syntax, > too, is similar; that's a fact insofar as some Netscape official > once explained it this way, though I haven't got a link handy, sorry. > > Suppose A# wouldn't have all this 'Ref nonsense... :-) Anyone for Cada?... #define { begin #define } end; and away we go!!! :-) -- Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 14:26 ` Martin @ 2012-01-11 16:28 ` Bill Findlay 2012-01-11 16:33 ` Martin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Bill Findlay @ 2012-01-11 16:28 UTC (permalink / raw) On 11/01/2012 14:26, in article 2a3f7ec1-d3a3-4d2d-a20e-fc9dc7455121@o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com, "Martin" <martin@thedowies.com> wrote: > On Jan 11, 1:26�pm, Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauh...@futureapps.de> > wrote: >> On 11.01.12 12:50, Martin wrote: >> >>> C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just >>> can't... >> >> Part of the reason why C# is sometimes counted among the >> nominal C languages is deliberate, I think: choosing the letter >> C blends optimally with Microsoft's language marketing initiatives. >> They have always known how to attract by assimilating popular ideas >> into their offerings. �Popularity correlates with an increase in >> likelihood of programmers taking curly braces for a sign of >> C quality. >> >> The reason that Netscape's browser based Lisp was named >> Javascript and the reason why it is using C style syntax, >> too, is similar; that's a fact insofar as some Netscape official >> once explained it this way, though I haven't got a link handy, sorry. >> >> Suppose A# wouldn't have all this 'Ref nonsense... :-) > > > Anyone for Cada?... > > #define { begin > #define } end; > > and away we go!!! :-) The original Bourne shell was written in pseudo-Algol 68, using exactly that 'technique', but going in the opposite direction: #define begin { #define end } No, really. -- Bill Findlay with blueyonder.co.uk; use surname & forename; ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 16:28 ` Bill Findlay @ 2012-01-11 16:33 ` Martin 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Martin @ 2012-01-11 16:33 UTC (permalink / raw) On Jan 11, 4:28 pm, Bill Findlay <yaldni...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > On 11/01/2012 14:26, in article > 2a3f7ec1-d3a3-4d2d-a20e-fc9dc7455...@o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com, "Martin" > > > > > > > > > > <mar...@thedowies.com> wrote: > > On Jan 11, 1:26 pm, Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauh...@futureapps.de> > > wrote: > >> On 11.01.12 12:50, Martin wrote: > > >>> C/C++/Objective-C - I can see why they get grouped. C/C++/C# - I just > >>> can't... > > >> Part of the reason why C# is sometimes counted among the > >> nominal C languages is deliberate, I think: choosing the letter > >> C blends optimally with Microsoft's language marketing initiatives. > >> They have always known how to attract by assimilating popular ideas > >> into their offerings. Popularity correlates with an increase in > >> likelihood of programmers taking curly braces for a sign of > >> C quality. > > >> The reason that Netscape's browser based Lisp was named > >> Javascript and the reason why it is using C style syntax, > >> too, is similar; that's a fact insofar as some Netscape official > >> once explained it this way, though I haven't got a link handy, sorry. > > >> Suppose A# wouldn't have all this 'Ref nonsense... :-) > > > Anyone for Cada?... > > > #define { begin > > #define } end; > > > and away we go!!! :-) > > The original Bourne shell was written in pseudo-Algol 68, using exactly that > 'technique', but going in the opposite direction: > > #define begin { > #define end } > > No, really. !! :-O ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 10:29 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2012-01-11 11:50 ` Martin @ 2012-01-12 11:53 ` Maciej Sobczak 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Maciej Sobczak @ 2012-01-12 11:53 UTC (permalink / raw) On Jan 11, 11:29 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de> wrote: > The crowd choosing C# now would likely chose C++ before. Both respond to > the same attitude to programming. Nonsense. C# is "Java done right by Microsoft" (whatever "right" means here) and its main points of attraction are strong emphasis on OO, reference- semantics and garbage collection. Interestingly, Java and C# are so much similar to each other that you can often just take a Java project and literally recode it line-to- line into C#. In many cases even the standard library functions are the same and differ only in casing. I've seen it happen, it's not a joke. C++ is very much opposed to these two with its value-semantics, no push towards OO and no garbage collection. In this regard C++ is much closer to Ada than to Java/C#. I understand that you wish to see C++ as your enemy, but please create another enemy category for it and don't mix it with C#. Or Java. -- Maciej Sobczak * http://www.msobczak.com * http://www.inspirel.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 7:08 C++ on the Down Slope? Charles H. Sampson 2012-01-11 8:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov @ 2012-01-11 9:00 ` Maciej Sobczak 2012-01-11 9:10 ` Martin 2012-03-09 7:20 ` Martin Krischik 2012-01-11 12:32 ` Martin Dowie 2 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Maciej Sobczak @ 2012-01-11 9:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Jan 11, 8:08 am, csamp...@inetworld.net (Charles H. Sampson) wrote: > According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++ > skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year. Skills don't disappear. There is something wrong with this stats. > Could this be an > indication that the enemy is faltering? C++ is not your enemy. If you think so, you are going nowhere. Your real enemy is every language that promises untrained coders to be successful. -- Maciej Sobczak * www.msobczak.com * www.inspirel.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 9:00 ` Maciej Sobczak @ 2012-01-11 9:10 ` Martin 2012-01-12 11:45 ` Maciej Sobczak 2012-03-09 7:20 ` Martin Krischik 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Martin @ 2012-01-11 9:10 UTC (permalink / raw) On Jan 11, 9:00 am, Maciej Sobczak <see.my.homep...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jan 11, 8:08 am, csamp...@inetworld.net (Charles H. Sampson) wrote: > > > According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++ > > skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year. > > Skills don't disappear. There is something wrong with this stats. People do - they leave linkedin/change jobs (engineer => manager). -- Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 9:10 ` Martin @ 2012-01-12 11:45 ` Maciej Sobczak 2012-01-12 15:33 ` Martin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Maciej Sobczak @ 2012-01-12 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw) On Jan 11, 10:10 am, Martin <mar...@thedowies.com> wrote: > > > According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++ > > > skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year. > > > Skills don't disappear. There is something wrong with this stats. > > People do - they leave linkedin/change jobs (engineer => manager). So you think that these stats indicate that C++ programmers become managers. Then: 1. Don't you think that learning C++ is a good career milestone? 2. Do you *really* think that your "enemy" is disappearing this way? Big smiley for both questions. ;-) -- Maciej Sobczak * http://www.msobczak.com * http://www.inspirel.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-12 11:45 ` Maciej Sobczak @ 2012-01-12 15:33 ` Martin 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Martin @ 2012-01-12 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw) On Jan 12, 11:45 am, Maciej Sobczak <see.my.homep...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jan 11, 10:10 am, Martin <mar...@thedowies.com> wrote: > > > > > According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++ > > > > skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year. > > > > Skills don't disappear. There is something wrong with this stats. > > > People do - they leave linkedin/change jobs (engineer => manager). > > So you think that these stats indicate that C++ programmers become > managers. > Then: > > 1. Don't you think that learning C++ is a good career milestone? > > 2. Do you *really* think that your "enemy" is disappearing this way? > > Big smiley for both questions. ;-) Smiley back :-) C++ isn't my enemy...I use it everyday...just not through choice! ;-) Perhaps they aren't all becoming managers, perhaps I should have written (engineer => burger flipper)!! More smiley's apply... -- Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 9:00 ` Maciej Sobczak 2012-01-11 9:10 ` Martin @ 2012-03-09 7:20 ` Martin Krischik 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Martin Krischik @ 2012-03-09 7:20 UTC (permalink / raw) Am Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2012 10:00:23 UTC+1 schrieb Maciej Sobczak: > Skills don't disappear. There is something wrong with this stats. They do: Those how posses them might stop advertising them on there CV. Or reach pension age. Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 7:08 C++ on the Down Slope? Charles H. Sampson 2012-01-11 8:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2012-01-11 9:00 ` Maciej Sobczak @ 2012-01-11 12:32 ` Martin Dowie 2012-01-13 10:06 ` Gautier write-only 2012-03-09 7:22 ` Martin Krischik 2 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Martin Dowie @ 2012-01-11 12:32 UTC (permalink / raw) Charles H. Sampson <csampson@inetworld.net> wrote: > According to a recent email from LinkedIn, 488,992 people have "C++ > skills" and this is an 8% decrease since last year. Could this be an > indication that the enemy is faltering? > > No, there's no indication of how they came up with 488,992. > > Charlie No, that's mirrored by http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html and http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/. A lot of this seems to be driven by iPad / iOS with Objective-C being the 'winner'. -- Martin -- -- Sent from my iPad ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 12:32 ` Martin Dowie @ 2012-01-13 10:06 ` Gautier write-only 2012-03-09 7:22 ` Martin Krischik 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Gautier write-only @ 2012-01-13 10:06 UTC (permalink / raw) On 11 jan, 13:32, Martin Dowie <mar...@re.mo.ve.thedowies.com> wrote: > No, that's mirrored by > http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html You even have the historical chart by clicking on the language in the table: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/paperinfo/tpci/C__.html > and > http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/. On this index, it went down from 8.9% in April 2010 to 5.6% in January 2012. _________________________ Gautier's Ada programming http://gautiersblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Ada NB: follow the above link for a valid e-mail address ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: C++ on the Down Slope? 2012-01-11 12:32 ` Martin Dowie 2012-01-13 10:06 ` Gautier write-only @ 2012-03-09 7:22 ` Martin Krischik 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Martin Krischik @ 2012-03-09 7:22 UTC (permalink / raw) Am Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2012 13:32:41 UTC+1 schrieb Martin Dowie: > http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/. COBOL is not “general-purpose” — how come? Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2012-03-09 7:28 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2012-01-11 7:08 C++ on the Down Slope? Charles H. Sampson 2012-01-11 8:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2012-01-11 8:50 ` Martin 2012-01-11 10:29 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2012-01-11 11:50 ` Martin 2012-01-11 13:21 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2012-01-11 13:26 ` Georg Bauhaus 2012-01-11 14:26 ` Martin 2012-01-11 16:28 ` Bill Findlay 2012-01-11 16:33 ` Martin 2012-01-12 11:53 ` Maciej Sobczak 2012-01-11 9:00 ` Maciej Sobczak 2012-01-11 9:10 ` Martin 2012-01-12 11:45 ` Maciej Sobczak 2012-01-12 15:33 ` Martin 2012-03-09 7:20 ` Martin Krischik 2012-01-11 12:32 ` Martin Dowie 2012-01-13 10:06 ` Gautier write-only 2012-03-09 7:22 ` Martin Krischik
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