* Who's using Ada in industry? @ 2008-03-20 23:08 Michael Feldman 2008-03-21 14:14 ` Ludovic Brenta ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Michael Feldman @ 2008-03-20 23:08 UTC (permalink / raw) Hello everyone, After several years of inactivity with the Ada project list, I've started to maintain it actively again. I've put a revised version online at http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-summary.html I've changed the "look" a bit, added a few listings, changed the order of the project groupings, and removed all the dead links (without removing the associated listings). There aren't too many links now, but I think they are all valid. Now I need your help. Please look at this long and interesting list, and let me know if you have anything to add to it (or delete if necessary). If you can provide a valid link for a project that doesn't have one, that would be great. This list will best serve the community if its listings refer to actual applications of Ada that are either fielded or under active implementation. I don't want to pad the list with tools, compilers, libraries, etc., but rather to respond to the question "who is actually using Ada in industry?". If you are close enough to a project to know there's "Ada inside", please let me hear from you. In the past, some listings have come from "anonymous sources"; you can be assured of my discretion; I always respect the confdentiality of my informants. As always, please help make this list as complete and accurate as possible; it's good for all of us. Thanks very much in advance for your help and interest! Best regards, Michael Feldman Chairman, ACM SIGAda Education Working Group Professor Emeritus, Department of Computer Science The George Washington University ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Who's using Ada in industry? 2008-03-20 23:08 Who's using Ada in industry? Michael Feldman @ 2008-03-21 14:14 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-21 17:03 ` John B. Matthews ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-21 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw) mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman) writes: > Now I need your help. Please look at this long and interesting list, > and let me know if you have anything to add to it (or delete if > necessary). If you can provide a valid link for a project that > doesn't have one, that would be great. Barco Avionics [1] and Eurocontrol's Central Flow Management Unit [2] are both missing from your list, and both have publicly stated they used Ada. [1] http://www.cs.kuleuven.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/events/07/070612-abga-event.html [2] http://www.cs.kuleuven.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/events/06/060226-fosdem.html -- Ludovic Brenta. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Who's using Ada in industry? 2008-03-20 23:08 Who's using Ada in industry? Michael Feldman 2008-03-21 14:14 ` Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-21 17:03 ` John B. Matthews 2008-03-21 19:28 ` Niklas Holsti 2008-03-26 12:20 ` Reinert Korsnes 3 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: John B. Matthews @ 2008-03-21 17:03 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <13u5rikmodtea4d@corp.supernews.com>, mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman) wrote: > After several years of inactivity with the Ada project list, I've started to > maintain it actively again. I've put a revised version online at > > http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-summary.html Excellent! Sadly, the link for SAIC's radar simulator appears outdated; this one looks fresher: <http://www.saic.com/products/simulation/radsim3/> John -- John B. Matthews trashgod at gmail dot com home dot woh dot rr dot com slash jbmatthews ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Who's using Ada in industry? 2008-03-20 23:08 Who's using Ada in industry? Michael Feldman 2008-03-21 14:14 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-21 17:03 ` John B. Matthews @ 2008-03-21 19:28 ` Niklas Holsti 2008-03-22 13:05 ` axtens ` (2 more replies) 2008-03-26 12:20 ` Reinert Korsnes 3 siblings, 3 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Niklas Holsti @ 2008-03-21 19:28 UTC (permalink / raw) Michael Feldman wrote: > Hello everyone, > > After several years of inactivity with the Ada project list, > I've started to maintain it actively again. Very good indeed. > I don't want to pad the list > with tools, compilers, libraries, etc., but rather to respond > to the question "who is actually using Ada in industry?". I suspect that this exclusion of the SW tool industry from the definition of "industry" may focus the list on the traditional Ada application areas -- military and aerospace -- and exclude small or start-up Ada adopters in other areas. This could reinforce prejudice against Ada in other areas and especially in the SW tools area. I understand that a vendor of Ada compilers may be suspected of bias if the vendor chooses to write the compilers in Ada. But the same should not happen when a C compiler, or a language-neutral tool, is written in Ada. Moreover, I believe that the reputation of Java has been boosted by the fact that many tools for Java development are written in Java. Why should the same not be true for Ada? If SW tool projects were listed under their own heading -- perhaps as the last group -- they should not detract from the impact of the other projects on the list. I admit that I am biased, as my own project (and that of at least one other company in the same area, that I know of) are SW tools and thus apparently not wanted on the list. Perhaps only large, expensive projects are wanted? In that case it would be clearer to say so. -- Niklas Holsti Tidorum Ltd niklas holsti tidorum fi . @ . ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Who's using Ada in industry? 2008-03-21 19:28 ` Niklas Holsti @ 2008-03-22 13:05 ` axtens 2008-03-22 21:11 ` Michael Feldman 2008-03-24 4:38 ` adaworks 2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: axtens @ 2008-03-22 13:05 UTC (permalink / raw) The Protium Project <http://www.protiumblue.com> is using Ada internally, though not for the entire project. Kind regards, Bruce. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Who's using Ada in industry? 2008-03-21 19:28 ` Niklas Holsti 2008-03-22 13:05 ` axtens @ 2008-03-22 21:11 ` Michael Feldman 2008-03-24 19:33 ` Niklas Holsti 2008-03-24 4:38 ` adaworks 2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Michael Feldman @ 2008-03-22 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw) Niklas Holsti wrote: > Michael Feldman wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> After several years of inactivity with the Ada project list, >> I've started to maintain it actively again. > > Very good indeed. > >> I don't want to pad the list >> with tools, compilers, libraries, etc., but rather to respond >> to the question "who is actually using Ada in industry?". > > I suspect that this exclusion of the SW tool industry from the > definition of "industry" may focus the list on the traditional Ada > application areas -- military and aerospace -- and exclude small or > start-up Ada adopters in other areas. This could reinforce prejudice > against Ada in other areas and especially in the SW tools area. Perhaps so, though the list contains items from enough other domains that I don't think anyone can say it's limited to defense and aerospace. Railroad signaling is a very important domain for the public and for Ada; unfortunately it's difficult to get information because that industry is, well, very secretive. > > I understand that a vendor of Ada compilers may be suspected of bias if > the vendor chooses to write the compilers in Ada. But the same should > not happen when a C compiler, or a language-neutral tool, is written in > Ada. Moreover, I believe that the reputation of Java has been boosted by > the fact that many tools for Java development are written in Java. Why > should the same not be true for Ada? If SW tool projects were listed > under their own heading -- perhaps as the last group -- they should not > detract from the impact of the other projects on the list. Done - see below. > > I admit that I am biased, as my own project (and that of at least one > other company in the same area, that I know of) are SW tools and thus > apparently not wanted on the list. Perhaps only large, expensive > projects are wanted? In that case it would be clearer to say so. > Niklas makes a good point, so let me explain a bit further. I'm a (now-retired) college professor with no personal connection at all to any of these projects, and CERTAINLY no interest in pushing big, expensive projects over small ones. I'm not a spokesman for any big industry! I've been maintaining this project list -- off and on and off, now definitely on again -- for a number of years. During the years before that, and since, I've heard from friends in the industry that in order to promote Ada they needed to hear about applications -- "killer apps, if possible:-) -- in real, operating, systems. They thought it was nice that this or that library or IDE or code analyzer was written in Ada, but these tools are "self-referential" in the sense that they are written by developers for developers. So I concluded that I shouldn't focus on tools but rather on fielded apps for people other than software developers. That said, your suggestion to add a tool section to the list is a good one and I will do that. Niklas, please send me info on yours. Others, please help. I do think it sends a negative message to publish a 1-line list, so please excuse me if I wait a while before I publicly add this section, just to give it a chance to build up to a few good lines. Also, please keep in mind the old adage: if you like what you see, tell your friends. If you have a complaint, tell *me*. I don't necessarily read c.l.a. every day, so it make take time before I read others' posts to it. In the two days since I posted my call for contributions I've received at least a dozen e-mail responses. I'll post an updated list in a week or so, after I've had a chance to process everything. Thanks for your help! Mike ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Who's using Ada in industry? 2008-03-22 21:11 ` Michael Feldman @ 2008-03-24 19:33 ` Niklas Holsti 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Niklas Holsti @ 2008-03-24 19:33 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: mfeldman Michael Feldman wrote: > Niklas Holsti wrote: > >> Michael Feldman wrote: >>> >>> After several years of inactivity with the Ada project list, >>> I've started to maintain it actively again. >> >> If SW tool >> projects were listed under their own heading -- perhaps as the last >> group -- they should not detract from the impact of the other projects >> on the list. > > Done - see below. Thanks for adding this category. Although perhaps you shouldn't have, since (as you explain later) you had good reason to omit it in the first place. >> Perhaps only large, expensive >> projects are wanted? In that case it would be clearer to say so. >> > Niklas makes a good point, so let me explain a bit further. I'm a > (now-retired) college professor with no personal connection at all to > any of these projects, and CERTAINLY no interest in pushing big, > expensive projects over small ones. I'm not a spokesman for any big > industry! Michael, if my comment was offensive, I apologize, it was not meant to be. (I had been looking at my bank balance and feeling a bit green, perhaps it came through in the wording :-) There would be nothing wrong with a list that included only big, expensive Ada projects. Ada compiler vendors need such projects, and companies choosing a language for a big, expensive SW project are obviously more influenced if they see Ada being used in similar big, expensive projects, than they are by small Ada projects. > I've been maintaining this project list -- off and on and off, now > definitely on again -- for a number of years. During the years before > that, and since, I've heard from friends in the industry that in order > to promote Ada they needed to hear about applications -- "killer apps, > if possible:-) -- in real, operating, systems. > > They thought it was nice that this or that library or IDE or code > analyzer was written in Ada, but these tools are "self-referential" in > the sense that they are written by developers for developers. So I > concluded that I shouldn't focus on tools but rather on fielded apps for > people other than software developers. Ok, I understand better now. If that is what the audience of this list wants, that is what they should get. > That said, your suggestion to add a tool section to the list is a good > one and I will do that. Niklas, please send me info on yours. Fine, I will (and I will prompt the other company that I mentioned to send you their info, too). But I do now understand your initial exclusion of such projects, so feel free to go back to your original definition of the list. If you do exclude some projects, perhaps it would be a good idea to explain the project selection rules in the introduction to the list? Sort of suggesting that this is only a selected sample of the vast mass of Ada applications out there :-) -- Niklas Holsti Tidorum Ltd niklas holsti tidorum fi . @ . ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Who's using Ada in industry? 2008-03-21 19:28 ` Niklas Holsti 2008-03-22 13:05 ` axtens 2008-03-22 21:11 ` Michael Feldman @ 2008-03-24 4:38 ` adaworks 2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: adaworks @ 2008-03-24 4:38 UTC (permalink / raw) This issue is easily resolved by simply adding a category for Software Engineering Tools. It is probably a good idea to have such a category. Richard Riehle ==================================================== "Niklas Holsti" <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> wrote in message news:47e4078f$0$23819$4f793bc4@news.tdc.fi... > Michael Feldman wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> After several years of inactivity with the Ada project list, >> I've started to maintain it actively again. > > Very good indeed. > >> I don't want to pad the list >> with tools, compilers, libraries, etc., but rather to respond >> to the question "who is actually using Ada in industry?". > > I suspect that this exclusion of the SW tool industry from the definition of > "industry" may focus the list on the traditional Ada application areas -- > military and aerospace -- and exclude small or start-up Ada adopters in other > areas. This could reinforce prejudice against Ada in other areas and > especially in the SW tools area. > > I understand that a vendor of Ada compilers may be suspected of bias if the > vendor chooses to write the compilers in Ada. But the same should not happen > when a C compiler, or a language-neutral tool, is written in Ada. Moreover, I > believe that the reputation of Java has been boosted by the fact that many > tools for Java development are written in Java. Why should the same not be > true for Ada? If SW tool projects were listed under their own heading -- > perhaps as the last group -- they should not detract from the impact of the > other projects on the list. > > I admit that I am biased, as my own project (and that of at least one other > company in the same area, that I know of) are SW tools and thus apparently not > wanted on the list. Perhaps only large, expensive projects are wanted? In that > case it would be clearer to say so. > > -- > Niklas Holsti > Tidorum Ltd > niklas holsti tidorum fi > . @ . ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Who's using Ada in industry? 2008-03-20 23:08 Who's using Ada in industry? Michael Feldman ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2008-03-21 19:28 ` Niklas Holsti @ 2008-03-26 12:20 ` Reinert Korsnes 2008-03-26 18:47 ` Michael Feldman 2008-03-26 19:30 ` John B. Matthews 3 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Reinert Korsnes @ 2008-03-26 12:20 UTC (permalink / raw) Michael Feldman wrote: > Hello everyone, > > After several years of inactivity with the Ada project list, I've started > to maintain it actively again. I've put a revised version online at > > http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-summary.html > Open Source projects ? Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source http://www.opensource.org/ reinert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Who's using Ada in industry? 2008-03-26 12:20 ` Reinert Korsnes @ 2008-03-26 18:47 ` Michael Feldman 2008-03-28 9:11 ` Martin Krischik 2008-03-26 19:30 ` John B. Matthews 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Michael Feldman @ 2008-03-26 18:47 UTC (permalink / raw) Reinert Korsnes wrote: > Michael Feldman wrote: > >> Hello everyone, >> >> After several years of inactivity with the Ada project list, I've started >> to maintain it actively again. I've put a revised version online at >> >> http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-summary.html >> > > Open Source projects ? > > Ref: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source > http://www.opensource.org/ > > reinert Open source projects are fine -- do you have specific ones? I have only limited time for researching projects; I'd prefer to receive tips from people who know the specifics. Mike ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Who's using Ada in industry? 2008-03-26 18:47 ` Michael Feldman @ 2008-03-28 9:11 ` Martin Krischik 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Martin Krischik @ 2008-03-28 9:11 UTC (permalink / raw) Michael Feldman schrieb: > Open source projects are fine -- do you have specific ones? I have only > limited time for researching projects; I'd prefer to receive tips from > people who know the specifics. Browsing Sourceforce by category will give you 142 hits: https://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=163 Then all AdaCore Projecte are (more or less) OpenSoruce - and some of them are quite large: https://libre.adacore.com/ Martin -- mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net Ada programming at: http://ada.krischik.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Who's using Ada in industry? 2008-03-26 12:20 ` Reinert Korsnes 2008-03-26 18:47 ` Michael Feldman @ 2008-03-26 19:30 ` John B. Matthews 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: John B. Matthews @ 2008-03-26 19:30 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <k_idnVJjXOc3onfa4p2dnAA@telenor.com>, Reinert Korsnes <a@b.no> wrote: > Michael Feldman wrote: > > > Hello everyone, > > > > After several years of inactivity with the Ada project list, I've started > > to maintain it actively again. I've put a revised version online at > > > > http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-summary.html > > > Open Source projects ? I've enjoyed using these: Ada Web Server <https://libre.adacore.com/aws/main.html> GtkAda <https://libre.adacore.com/GtkAda/> LinXtris <http://sourceforge.net/projects/linxtris> Latin-English-Latin <http://users.erols.com/whitaker/words.htm> John -- John B. Matthews trashgod at gmail dot com home dot woh dot rr dot com slash jbmatthews ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-03-28 9:11 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2008-03-20 23:08 Who's using Ada in industry? Michael Feldman 2008-03-21 14:14 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-21 17:03 ` John B. Matthews 2008-03-21 19:28 ` Niklas Holsti 2008-03-22 13:05 ` axtens 2008-03-22 21:11 ` Michael Feldman 2008-03-24 19:33 ` Niklas Holsti 2008-03-24 4:38 ` adaworks 2008-03-26 12:20 ` Reinert Korsnes 2008-03-26 18:47 ` Michael Feldman 2008-03-28 9:11 ` Martin Krischik 2008-03-26 19:30 ` John B. Matthews
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