Re: What is wrong with Ada?

[Jason King <jhking@airmail.net>]

Folks, this exchange has something to do with the lack of popularity for 
Ada.  Basically I've just been told I don't ask the right questions, I 
don't understand the development process, my concerns are irrelevant to 
proper software development and that the average Ada developer is so 
much better than any other sort of developer that any project can be 
completed with 2 or 3 of them.
I _like_ Ada.  If I didn't have to reinvent so many wheels I'd use it.
Another post has a link to available libraries and maybe I'll see some 
things that help me do that.
Don't sneer at MIS guys.  Lots of us use and swear by Oracle and as I 
said in my first post pl/sql is pretty much a subset of Ada 83.  You 
should build on that.  I keep coming back to Ada because I don't like 
the conceptual impedance of some pieces in an Ada-like language and 
other pieces in a C-like language. Work with us pl/sql people and you 
might find large sets of database developers using Ada as a middleware 
or front-end tool.
Alexander E. Kopilovich wrote:
> Jason King wrote:
>> I'm an MIS guy not a CS guy and this is my take.
> 
> Well if you are from there then it is easy to asnwer - because it is current
> reality, which matters in MIS, and not high princples and/or sophisticated
> tastes.
> 
>> As we survey the landscape we see vb, delphi, ada, java etc.
> 
> So your enviroment is Windows - as you considered VB and Delphi.
> 
>> Initially ada looks very attractive because we're an Oracle shop and 
>> pl/sql (the stored procedure/trigger language inside the Oracle db) is 
>> based on ada-83.  Then we look for database access, tools to build 
>> client guis and tools to build web applications.  The tools available 
>> are substantially inferior in number and outside documentation to the 
>> ones available for java.
> 
> Well, not only to the Java, but even more so to VB and Delphi.
> 
> But why do you think that GUI layer should be programmed using the same
> language that middleware? You can (and perhaps should) separate your GUI
> stuff from the core of you application - and this GUI layer can be perfectly
> developed using VB or Delphi and then made available to the core in the form
> of DLL or ActiveX or .NET controls. (Altough if you choose Java for GUI layer
> you'll probably have much more trouble with that separation.)
> 
>>  Then the bosses look around to see how hard it 
>> is to hire new people for the shop as our client list expands.  There 
>> aren't a whole bunch of ada developers out there but there are schools 
>> on several continents churning out armies of java developers.
> 
> Well, if you need armies of developers then surely you must choose Java.
> But do you really want those armies? Perhaps just 2-3, well, at the edge of
> imagination, 5 developers would suffice, even if your client list explodes.
> And there will be no trouble to find so few developers with reasonable 
> knowledge of Ada (especially if your business is so successfull and rapidly
> expanding).
> 
>> In a world where we could search Amazon and find as many ada books as 
>> java books or get as many cvs with ada experience as java experience 
>> then ada would be an obvious choice.
> 
> Well, you can search Amazon and find there very few Ada books (which aren't
> outdated). But you need not more, because those are proper books, and they
> describe Ada quite well. 
> 
> Actually I do not think there is (and even could be) any books of comparable
> quality and language coverage for Java.
> 
>>  In the world as it exists the 
>> availability of support materials and experienced developers outweighs 
>> the technical merits of ada.
> 
> The word "support" is crucial here. Ada is exactly support-oriented language.
> But "support" for Ada means regular professional support, and not a kind of
> random support from the elements in and around the industry.
> 
> Therefore, if you can afford such regular professional support (for example,
> like that provided by AdaCore for users of their GNAT Professional compiler)
> then you can use Ada for you business applications quite succesfully. But if
> not, then, well, perhaps you better do not try to use Ada in you business
> applications unless your developers are great Ada enthusiasts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>