* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-10 15:00 Looking for better Ada books MRV@gmail.com
@ 2016-03-10 16:59 ` Anh Vo
2016-03-10 21:39 ` Randy Brukardt
2016-03-10 17:35 ` Olivier Henley
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Anh Vo @ 2016-03-10 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 7:00:32 AM UTC-8, M...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Are there any better books out there!
>
> I have the following books.
>
> Programming with ada by Peter Wegner
>
> Programming in Ada by Barnes 3rd edition
> Programming in Ada 95 by John Barnes 2nd edition
> Software Components with Ada by Grady Booch
> Reference Manual for the Ada Programming Language 1983
> Ada 95 Reference Manual
> Ada 95 Rationale
> Understanding Ada by Bray and Pokrass
What is your definition of better books?
You are way behind technologies for sure. I suggest that you move to the latest Ada, ISO/IEC 8652:2012(E) http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/12rm/html/RM-TTL.html. In addition, take a look at Ada 2012 Rationale http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/12rat/html/Rat12-TTL.html.
Anh Vo
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-10 16:59 ` Anh Vo
@ 2016-03-10 21:39 ` Randy Brukardt
2016-03-11 14:29 ` G.B.
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Randy Brukardt @ 2016-03-10 21:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
"Anh Vo" <anhvofrcaus@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6dda98bb-0bff-4e5f-b601-e64791f32db6@googlegroups.com...
>On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 7:00:32 AM UTC-8, M...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Are there any better books out there!
>>
>> I have the following books.
>>
>> Programming with ada by Peter Wegner
>>
>> Programming in Ada by Barnes 3rd edition
>> Programming in Ada 95 by John Barnes 2nd edition
>> Software Components with Ada by Grady Booch
>> Reference Manual for the Ada Programming Language 1983
>> Ada 95 Reference Manual
>> Ada 95 Rationale
>> Understanding Ada by Bray and Pokrass
>
>What is your definition of better books?
>
>You are way behind technologies for sure.
Sure seems like my library of dusty old Ada books. Most of which I haven't
opened in decades... :-)
> I suggest that you move to the latest Ada, ISO/IEC
> 8652:2012(E)http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/12rm/html/RM-TTL.html.
> In addition, take a look at Ada 2012 Rationale
> http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/12rat/html/Rat12-TTL.html.
Both of which are available in print form from Springer.
But it's silly these days to restrict oneself to "books". There are a number
of electronic resources to use as well (Ada Distilled - a PDF "book", and
the Ada wikibooks site come to mind) - which have the distinct advantage of
being free.
For a rather inclusive list of current Ada learning materials, see
http://www.adaic.org/learn/materials/.
Randy Brukardt.
Anh Vo
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-10 21:39 ` Randy Brukardt
@ 2016-03-11 14:29 ` G.B.
2016-03-12 2:47 ` Randy Brukardt
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: G.B. @ 2016-03-11 14:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 10.03.16 22:39, Randy Brukardt wrote:
>> What is your definition of better books?
>> >
>> >You are way behind technologies for sure.
> Sure seems like my library of dusty old Ada books. Most of which I haven't
> opened in decades...:-)
>
Being with the latest, greatest and largest version of Ada is one thing,
having a good technical writer's book on Ada is another. The latter
quality of being a writer that the reader finds readable can help quite
a bit even when the subject is "older" Ada. Namely, whenever the author
is a good match for the reader's learning habits.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-11 14:29 ` G.B.
@ 2016-03-12 2:47 ` Randy Brukardt
2016-03-12 7:10 ` Hadrien Grasland
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Randy Brukardt @ 2016-03-12 2:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
"G.B." <bauhaus@futureapps.invalid> wrote in message
news:nbukih$dbg$1@dont-email.me...
> On 10.03.16 22:39, Randy Brukardt wrote:
>>> What is your definition of better books?
>>> >
>>> >You are way behind technologies for sure.
>> Sure seems like my library of dusty old Ada books. Most of which I
>> haven't
>> opened in decades...:-)
>>
>
> Being with the latest, greatest and largest version of Ada is one thing,
> having a good technical writer's book on Ada is another. The latter
> quality of being a writer that the reader finds readable can help quite
> a bit even when the subject is "older" Ada. Namely, whenever the author
> is a good match for the reader's learning habits.
Surely, but most of those old books sucked. In the early days of Ada, lots
of people pumped out books in an attempt to cash in on what looked like the
future (and lots of people with deep pockets). There's a reason I haven't
opened those books!
There were a lot fewer Ada 95 books, and most of those are good or better.
Ada 83 books, not so much (some of them could actually promote bad habits).
Anyway, I personally wouldn't bother with books at all, since there are a
wide variety of free resources available online these days, and those are
just as good as the (expensive) books. As you say, YMMV.
Randy.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-12 2:47 ` Randy Brukardt
@ 2016-03-12 7:10 ` Hadrien Grasland
2016-03-12 10:23 ` Georg Bauhaus
2016-03-12 18:13 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2016-03-13 2:42 ` mvinn@gmail.com
2016-03-13 13:30 ` gautier_niouzes
2 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Hadrien Grasland @ 2016-03-12 7:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
Le samedi 12 mars 2016 03:47:30 UTC+1, Randy Brukardt a écrit :
>
> Anyway, I personally wouldn't bother with books at all, since there are a
> wide variety of free resources available online these days, and those are
> just as good as the (expensive) books. As you say, YMMV.
>
> Randy.
I agree about Ada books being outrageously expensive, however a (good!) book is usually better than online material when it comes to offering in-depth coverage of its subject.
Online material tends to fall either in the "quick tutorial" or the "newcomer-hostile authoritative reference" category, with little in-between for the intermediate learners. Unless you want to read "tip of the week" blog posts for a whole year, of course ;)
Hadrien
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-12 7:10 ` Hadrien Grasland
@ 2016-03-12 10:23 ` Georg Bauhaus
2016-03-12 18:13 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2016-03-12 18:13 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2016-03-12 10:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 12.03.16 08:10, Hadrien Grasland wrote:
> Online material tends to fall either in the "quick tutorial" or the "newcomer-hostile authoritative reference" category, with little in-between for the intermediate learners.
Also, some online material appears to have "holes": IINM,
the wikibook lacks a section specifically addressing visibility.
For example,
- what it is, basically,
- how it facilitates the organization of an Ada software source text,
- what size of grains there are, so to speak,
- ...
The book should have that, at least to an extent that gets the
user going.
--
"HOTDOGS ARE NOT BOOKMARKS"
Springfield Elementary teaching staff
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-12 10:23 ` Georg Bauhaus
@ 2016-03-12 18:13 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Jeffrey R. Carter @ 2016-03-12 18:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 03/12/2016 03:23 AM, Georg Bauhaus wrote:
>
> Also, some online material appears to have "holes": IINM,
> the wikibook lacks a section specifically addressing visibility.
That's a serious omission. Visibility may be the most important concept in the
language. /Ada Distilled/ has an entire section devoted to scope and visibility,
marked "Important", and with the observation, "Understanding visibility is the
key to understanding Ada."
--
Jeff Carter
"English bed-wetting types."
Monty Python & the Holy Grail
15
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-12 7:10 ` Hadrien Grasland
2016-03-12 10:23 ` Georg Bauhaus
@ 2016-03-12 18:13 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2016-03-14 23:23 ` Randy Brukardt
1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Jeffrey R. Carter @ 2016-03-12 18:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 03/12/2016 12:10 AM, Hadrien Grasland wrote:
>
> Online material tends to fall either in the "quick tutorial" or the
> "newcomer-hostile authoritative reference" category, with little in-between
> for the intermediate learners. Unless you want to read "tip of the week" blog
> posts for a whole year, of course ;)
/Ada Distilled/, being aimed at experienced C/++ programmers, seems to be a rare
example of something more than a quick tutorial but not newcomer-hostile.
--
Jeff Carter
"English bed-wetting types."
Monty Python & the Holy Grail
15
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-12 18:13 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
@ 2016-03-14 23:23 ` Randy Brukardt
0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Randy Brukardt @ 2016-03-14 23:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
"Jeffrey R. Carter" <spam.jrcarter.not@spam.not.acm.org> wrote in message
news:nc1m36$vkp$3@dont-email.me...
> On 03/12/2016 12:10 AM, Hadrien Grasland wrote:
>>
>> Online material tends to fall either in the "quick tutorial" or the
>> "newcomer-hostile authoritative reference" category, with little
>> in-between
>> for the intermediate learners. Unless you want to read "tip of the week"
>> blog
>> posts for a whole year, of course ;)
>
> /Ada Distilled/, being aimed at experienced C/++ programmers, seems to be
> a rare
> example of something more than a quick tutorial but not newcomer-hostile.
Yes, I was mostly thinking of Ada Distilled in my original reply, but since
books are such a personal thing, I thought it was best to highlight that
there are many such resources.
Randy.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-12 2:47 ` Randy Brukardt
2016-03-12 7:10 ` Hadrien Grasland
@ 2016-03-13 2:42 ` mvinn@gmail.com
2016-03-14 23:32 ` Randy Brukardt
2016-03-13 13:30 ` gautier_niouzes
2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: mvinn@gmail.com @ 2016-03-13 2:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Friday, March 11, 2016 at 9:47:30 PM UTC-5, Randy Brukardt wrote:
> Anyway, I personally wouldn't bother with books at all, since there are a
> wide variety of free resources available online these days, and those are
> just as good as the (expensive) books. As you say, YMMV.
>
Note: A book can stay around forever on your shelf. But, an Internet web page can change or no longer exist. If you print out Internet pages they aren't bound together. I've never bound them together. These Internet pages sit in plastic bags which are harder to manage.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-13 2:42 ` mvinn@gmail.com
@ 2016-03-14 23:32 ` Randy Brukardt
2016-03-15 10:50 ` Bob Butler
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Randy Brukardt @ 2016-03-14 23:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
"mvinn@gmail.com" <ashos.owner@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43d4b90d-4630-47e8-82bc-763c3312653a@googlegroups.com...
On Friday, March 11, 2016 at 9:47:30 PM UTC-5, Randy Brukardt wrote:
>> Anyway, I personally wouldn't bother with books at all, since there are a
>> wide variety of free resources available online these days, and those are
>> just as good as the (expensive) books. As you say, YMMV.
>>
>Note: A book can stay around forever on your shelf. But, an Internet web
>page
>can change or no longer exist. If you print out Internet pages they aren't
>bound
>together. I've never bound them together. These Internet pages sit in
>plastic bags
>which are harder to manage.
Ada Distilled is a PDF that you can download (really, have to download in
that there isn't any other way to read it). And one can download any set of
HTML pages (there are many tools for that). I do that if I've worried about
the permanence of something. (And I do agree that way too much stuff
disappears from the Internet, if it's important, make a copy.)
And books (like pretty everything) do tend to disappear over the decades.
I'd love to still have a copy of "Ada as a Second Language", but it
disappeared long ago. I can believe that one might have trouble finding
something you haven't look at for years on one's computer -- but the same
hold true for physical books. (And there are better search tools on my
computer than there are for my bookshelf. ;-)
All-in-all, I think this is essentially a push.
Randy.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-14 23:32 ` Randy Brukardt
@ 2016-03-15 10:50 ` Bob Butler
0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Bob Butler @ 2016-03-15 10:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 2016-03-14, Randy Brukardt <randy@rrsoftware.com> wrote:
> And books (like pretty everything) do tend to disappear over the decades.
> I'd love to still have a copy of "Ada as a Second Language", but it
> disappeared long ago.
I bought both editions online. Used, but in very good shape. They are not
expensive if you shop around. They're not always available but come up every
so often.
Bob
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-12 2:47 ` Randy Brukardt
2016-03-12 7:10 ` Hadrien Grasland
2016-03-13 2:42 ` mvinn@gmail.com
@ 2016-03-13 13:30 ` gautier_niouzes
2 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: gautier_niouzes @ 2016-03-13 13:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
Le samedi 12 mars 2016 03:47:30 UTC+1, Randy Brukardt a écrit :
> There were a lot fewer Ada 95 books, and most of those are good or better.
> Ada 83 books, not so much (some of them could actually promote bad habits).
If you consider Ada 83 as a draft or "pre-version" of the language, something similar happened to books - a kind of filtering occurred.
_________________________
Gautier's Ada programming
http://sf.net/users/gdemont/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-10 15:00 Looking for better Ada books MRV@gmail.com
2016-03-10 16:59 ` Anh Vo
@ 2016-03-10 17:35 ` Olivier Henley
2016-03-11 2:44 ` mvinn@gmail.com
2016-03-11 14:05 ` Brian Drummond
2016-03-14 13:46 ` Luke A. Guest
3 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Olivier Henley @ 2016-03-10 17:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
1. Ada for Software Engineers 2nd ed. 2009 Edition, ISBN-13: 978-1848823136
2. Concurrent and Real-Time Programming in Ada 3rd Edition, ISBN-13: 978-0521866972
3. Programming in Ada 2012 1st Edition, ISBN-13: 978-1107424814
... were excellent. (Have not finished 3. yet, but amazing so far)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-10 17:35 ` Olivier Henley
@ 2016-03-11 2:44 ` mvinn@gmail.com
2016-03-14 15:11 ` Olivier Henley
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: mvinn@gmail.com @ 2016-03-11 2:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 12:35:19 PM UTC-5, Olivier Henley wrote:
> 1. Ada for Software Engineers 2nd ed. 2009 Edition, ISBN-13: 978-1848823136
> 2. Concurrent and Real-Time Programming in Ada 3rd Edition, ISBN-13: 978-0521866972
> 3. Programming in Ada 2012 1st Edition, ISBN-13: 978-1107424814
>
I noticed a comment on Amazon that said (1) is hard to read. Are these books easy to read? Are there easier reading alternatives?
Sorry, I'm lazy but will definitely order all of these.
Thank you,
Michael Vinn
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-11 2:44 ` mvinn@gmail.com
@ 2016-03-14 15:11 ` Olivier Henley
0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Olivier Henley @ 2016-03-14 15:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:44:36 PM UTC-5, mv...@gmail.com wrote:
> I noticed a comment on Amazon that said (1) is hard to read. Are these books easy to read? Are there easier reading alternatives?
>
> Sorry, I'm lazy but will definitely order all of these.
>
> Thank you,
> Michael Vinn
Ok (1) is not for beginners but is not difficult to read for a seasoned programmer. Actually it is quite pleasing to not spend time on basic stuff.
I must say that (2) was a delight. Code examples are the best I read from a book, plus the authors derive, accompanying the reader, some nifty concurrent utilities modules.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-10 15:00 Looking for better Ada books MRV@gmail.com
2016-03-10 16:59 ` Anh Vo
2016-03-10 17:35 ` Olivier Henley
@ 2016-03-11 14:05 ` Brian Drummond
2016-03-14 13:46 ` Luke A. Guest
3 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Brian Drummond @ 2016-03-11 14:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 07:00:29 -0800, MRV@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Are there any better books out there!
>
> I have the following books.
>
> Programming with ada by Peter Wegner
>
> Programming in Ada by Barnes 3rd edition Programming in Ada 95 by John
> Barnes 2nd edition Software Components with Ada by Grady Booch Reference
> Manual for the Ada Programming Language 1983 Ada 95 Reference Manual Ada
> 95 Rationale Understanding Ada by Bray and Pokrass
>
>
> Michael Vinn
From a slightly different perspective - not references to the language
itself but how to actually do things with it...
Building Parallel, Embedded and Real Time Applications with Ada
McCormick, Singhoff and Hughes,
And at least one book covering SPARK.
John Barnes has one, "High Integrity Software" is good but covers an
older version of SPARK (the book's been updated, but I haven't seen the
newer version)
In my in-tray waiting is "Building High Integrity Applications with
SPARK" (McCormick and Chapin).
-- Brian
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-10 15:00 Looking for better Ada books MRV@gmail.com
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2016-03-11 14:05 ` Brian Drummond
@ 2016-03-14 13:46 ` Luke A. Guest
2016-03-14 15:05 ` Olivier Henley
2016-03-14 17:57 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
3 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Luke A. Guest @ 2016-03-14 13:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
MRV@gmail.com <ashos.owner@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Are there any better books out there!
>
I really must publish "Dicking about with Ada" and "Doing shit with Ada you
probably never thought of" 😝
Luke
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-14 13:46 ` Luke A. Guest
@ 2016-03-14 15:05 ` Olivier Henley
2016-03-14 17:57 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Olivier Henley @ 2016-03-14 15:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Monday, March 14, 2016 at 9:46:56 AM UTC-4, Luke A. Guest wrote:
> I really must publish "Dicking about with Ada" and "Doing shit with Ada you
> probably never thought of" 😝
LOL. I would love to help such a project. I could write crude ranting parts like ... why a kid trying to write a game using excel macros is, IMO, a threat to society. :)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Looking for better Ada books
2016-03-14 13:46 ` Luke A. Guest
2016-03-14 15:05 ` Olivier Henley
@ 2016-03-14 17:57 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Jeffrey R. Carter @ 2016-03-14 17:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 03/14/2016 06:46 AM, Luke A. Guest wrote:
>
> I really must publish "Dicking about with Ada" and "Doing shit with Ada you
> probably never thought of" 😝
You've already written them, then? I've been thinking about writing /Private
Parts/, with uncensored views of beautiful Ada code, for at least a decade.
--
Jeff Carter
"If you think you got a nasty taunting this time,
you ain't heard nothing yet!"
Monty Python and the Holy Grail
23
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread