From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>
Subject: Re: Preventing type extensions
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 22:49:06 +0200
Date: 2010-09-23T22:49:04+02:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <118qmxho82l2o$.2hnfi4z6468h$.dlg@40tude.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: m2zkv8w7r2.fsf@pushface.org
On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 21:00:01 +0100, Simon Wright wrote:
> "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> writes:
>
>> Gosh, it was no more than just this: if horse is an animal that does
>> not imply they are interchangeable. Compare: "all horses have hoofs"
>> and "all animals have hoofs."
>
> I don't see your point.
It was: the type /horse/ is not the type /animal/. That is not because of
Ada's choice to keep them apart, it is because they are behaviorally
(semantically) different.
> You could make a near-infinity of operations on Animal like has-hooves,
> has-tentacles etc but that would be silly. The only ops that make sense
> at the Animal level are ones shared by all animals.
All primitive operations are already shared, if it were only about type
checks there would be nothing to discuss. Ada checks types.
Beyond nominal checks, comparing two related types like horse and animal
one considers substitutability. S is substitutable for T when any predicate
P(T) remains true after substitution S for T. LSP subtype as defined by
Liskov & Wang are those maintaining substitutability. (All possible
predicates exhaustively determine what in OO is called behavior. This is
why Liskov & Wang named it "behavioral notion of subtype.") My example
illustrated existence of predicates turning false. Thus horse is not animal
and animal is not horse (yet *a* horse is *an* animal). It is a tautology:
a subset which is the whole set is not the whole set.
--
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-09-23 20:49 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 107+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-09-12 10:18 Preventing type extensions Florian Weimer
2010-09-12 11:59 ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-12 12:53 ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-12 21:23 ` Maciej Sobczak
2010-09-13 5:32 ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-13 7:13 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13 9:19 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-13 9:42 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13 10:23 ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-13 12:55 ` Cyrille
2010-09-13 13:55 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13 21:13 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-21 13:57 ` Cyrille
2010-09-21 14:19 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-21 14:44 ` Cyrille
2010-09-21 16:25 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-21 17:11 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-21 18:11 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-23 20:00 ` Simon Wright
2010-09-23 20:49 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2010-09-24 9:10 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-24 10:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-24 13:30 ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-24 16:27 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-24 17:47 ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-24 19:42 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-21 14:32 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-21 15:02 ` Cyrille
2010-09-21 15:26 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-21 16:18 ` Cyrille
2010-09-22 8:01 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-22 17:28 ` Cyrille
2010-09-22 19:30 ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-22 19:51 ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-22 20:14 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-22 20:25 ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-22 20:38 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-22 21:25 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2010-09-22 21:20 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-22 20:16 ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-22 20:34 ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-22 22:45 ` Britt Snodgrass
2010-09-23 8:02 ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-23 16:51 ` Pascal Obry
2010-09-23 18:37 ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-23 18:55 ` Pascal Obry
2010-09-23 20:28 ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-24 9:20 ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-24 14:49 ` Simon Wright
2010-09-24 15:09 ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-24 16:21 ` Robert A Duff
2010-09-25 7:10 ` Pascal Obry
2010-09-25 12:03 ` Brian Drummond
2010-09-24 8:16 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-24 8:39 ` Cyrille
2010-09-24 9:27 ` Cyrille
2010-09-29 16:47 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-30 10:08 ` Cyrille
2010-10-05 17:02 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-10-08 7:50 ` Cyrille
2010-10-08 13:58 ` Cyrille
2010-10-08 20:12 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-10-11 7:57 ` Cyrille
2010-10-11 8:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-10-12 5:23 ` Shark8
2010-10-13 9:06 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-10-13 17:37 ` Cyrille
2010-10-13 18:50 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-21 14:50 ` (see below)
2010-09-21 17:37 ` Cyrille
2010-09-21 19:07 ` (see below)
2010-09-13 13:05 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13 20:21 ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-13 21:00 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13 21:10 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-14 12:16 ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-14 16:46 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-14 18:08 ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-14 18:32 ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-15 8:18 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-14 17:04 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-13 15:12 ` Securing type extensions (was: Preventing type extensions) Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-13 15:29 ` Securing type extensions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13 17:23 ` Simon Wright
2010-09-13 20:22 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-13 20:41 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-14 10:02 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-14 12:22 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-14 21:18 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-15 8:15 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-15 20:47 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-16 7:47 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-16 11:52 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-16 12:45 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-16 20:53 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-16 21:37 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-17 8:45 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-17 9:39 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-10-05 5:59 ` Randy Brukardt
2010-09-13 18:32 ` Preventing " Florian Weimer
2010-09-13 20:30 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-22 19:41 ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-22 20:34 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-22 21:10 ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-17 0:16 ` Shark8
2010-09-17 7:04 ` AdaMagica
2010-09-17 21:05 ` Shark8
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