* New open source UML tool including Ada support @ 2007-07-10 9:38 Martin 2007-07-10 13:10 ` Markus E Leypold 0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Martin @ 2007-07-10 9:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Don't know why Aonix haven't bothered to post here but they've opened up their UML tool "Ameos" as "OpenAmeos" http://www.aonix.com/pr_06.20.07.html Haven't spent more than 5 minutes looking at it yet but it seems to offer both forward source code generation and reverse into UML support for both Ada95 and what looks like support for "Ravenscar" Ada95. Cheers -- Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 9:38 New open source UML tool including Ada support Martin @ 2007-07-10 13:10 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-10 15:53 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen 2007-07-10 16:10 ` Martin 0 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-10 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw) > Don't know why Aonix haven't bothered to post here but they've opened Perhaps because the source is not available yet? (Which raises the question under which license the user gets the executable at the moment: Not the modfied LGPL under which everything will be available later, because the downloader is at the moment not able to comply to this (future) license, given that he doesn't have the source to comply.) > up their UML tool "Ameos" as "OpenAmeos" http://www.aonix.com/pr_06.20.07.html Regards -- Markus ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 13:10 ` Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-10 15:53 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen 2007-07-10 16:09 ` Martin 2007-07-10 16:10 ` Martin 1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Rosen @ 2007-07-10 15:53 UTC (permalink / raw) Markus E Leypold a �crit : > >> Don't know why Aonix haven't bothered to post here but they've opened > > Perhaps because the source is not available yet? (Which raises the > question under which license the user gets the executable at the > moment: Not the modfied LGPL under which everything will be available > later, because the downloader is at the moment not able to comply to > this (future) license, given that he doesn't have the source to > comply.) > This is known as the Hibachi project, and has been announced (under this name) in this newsgroup and at the Ada-Europe conference in Geneva. Note: Hibachi is a traditional Japanese heating device. It is also the anagram of a famous person... -- --------------------------------------------------------- J-P. Rosen (rosen@adalog.fr) Visit Adalog's web site at http://www.adalog.fr ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 15:53 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen @ 2007-07-10 16:09 ` Martin 0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Martin @ 2007-07-10 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw) On 10 Jul, 16:53, Jean-Pierre Rosen <r...@adalog.fr> wrote: [snip] > This is known as the Hibachi project, and has been announced (under this > name) in this newsgroup and at the Ada-Europe conference in Geneva. > > Note: Hibachi is a traditional Japanese heating device. It is also the > anagram of a famous person... No! Hibachi is the Eclipse add-on to support Ada source code writing/ building/debugging. This is a UML diagramming tool which can autogenerate code (in C++, Java and, of course, Ada - possibly others). Cheers -- Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 13:10 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-10 15:53 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen @ 2007-07-10 16:10 ` Martin 2007-07-10 17:08 ` Markus E Leypold 1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Martin @ 2007-07-10 16:10 UTC (permalink / raw) On 10 Jul, 14:10, Markus E Leypold <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVET...@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> wrote: > > Don't know why Aonix haven't bothered to post here but they've opened > > Perhaps because the source is not available yet? (Which raises the > question under which license the user gets the executable at the > moment: Not the modfied LGPL under which everything will be available > later, because the downloader is at the moment not able to comply to > this (future) license, given that he doesn't have the source to > comply.) Not too bothered if the source is available just now or not - it's unlikely to be in Ada anyway! But the free (as in beer) availablity of a UML tool which also supports Ada, now /that's/ interesting! :-) Cheers -- Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 16:10 ` Martin @ 2007-07-10 17:08 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-10 18:28 ` Georg Bauhaus ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-10 17:08 UTC (permalink / raw) > On 10 Jul, 14:10, Markus E Leypold > <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVET...@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> wrote: >> > Don't know why Aonix haven't bothered to post here but they've opened >> >> Perhaps because the source is not available yet? (Which raises the >> question under which license the user gets the executable at the >> moment: Not the modfied LGPL under which everything will be available >> later, because the downloader is at the moment not able to comply to >> this (future) license, given that he doesn't have the source to >> comply.) > > Not too bothered if the source is available just now or not - it's > unlikely to be in Ada anyway! But the free (as in beer) availablity of > a UML tool which also supports Ada, now /that's/ interesting! :-) Quite right. I'm only trolling on the license situation since I'm probably already infamous for my destructive relationship to licensing. The problem simply is, that the page AFAIS doesn't state a license (so I can do everything with the tool I want? -- strange) and that we can't assume you get the tool under *GPL since you can't give it to others under that circumstances w/o source. I also fear (since the tool you gat is an exe file) that it won't be easily portable to Unix (but this is another problem). Regards -- Markus ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 17:08 ` Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-10 18:28 ` Georg Bauhaus 2007-07-10 19:11 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-10 19:51 ` Simon Wright 2007-07-10 20:14 ` Martin 2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2007-07-10 18:28 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, 2007-07-10 at 19:08 +0200, Markus E Leypold wrote: > > > > I also fear (since the tool you gat is an exe file) that it won't be > easily portable to Unix (but this is another problem). I think Ameos has a few ideas in common with Software through Pictures (TM), a venerable tool. " Since 1985 we have been developing StP consistently and adapting our products to the latest technologies and requirements. Today structured methods (StP/SE) like Structure Analysis and Structured Design are supported, as well as the Unified Modeling Language (StP/UML) in the OO range." There are a few snapshots showing Motif interfaces. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 18:28 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2007-07-10 19:11 ` Markus E Leypold 0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-10 19:11 UTC (permalink / raw) > On Tue, 2007-07-10 at 19:08 +0200, Markus E Leypold wrote: >> >> > >> I also fear (since the tool you gat is an exe file) that it won't be >> easily portable to Unix (but this is another problem). Actually I take that back. "Other Platforms will follow soon". On the other side I've been waiting for some open sourcing announcements to become true now for more than 5 years. So I believe it when it happens. > I think Ameos has a few ideas in common with > Software through Pictures (TM), a venerable tool. > " Since 1985 we have been developing StP consistently and adapting our > products to the latest technologies and requirements. Today structured > methods (StP/SE) like Structure Analysis and Structured Design are > supported, as well as the Unified Modeling Language (StP/UML) in the > OO range." > > There are a few snapshots showing Motif interfaces. Of STP? Regards -- markus ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 17:08 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-10 18:28 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2007-07-10 19:51 ` Simon Wright 2007-07-10 22:25 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-10 20:14 ` Martin 2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Simon Wright @ 2007-07-10 19:51 UTC (permalink / raw) Markus E Leypold <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVETHIS@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> writes: > Quite right. I'm only trolling on the license situation since I'm > probably already infamous for my destructive relationship to > licensing. The problem simply is, that the page AFAIS doesn't state > a license (so I can do everything with the tool I want? -- strange) > and that we can't assume you get the tool under *GPL since you can't > give it to others under that circumstances w/o source. Reading the terms of use it's not obvious what meaning 'open source' has! Of course, since they say "You may not decompile, reverse engineer or otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the software." it's possible that the terms of use are still draft .. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 19:51 ` Simon Wright @ 2007-07-10 22:25 ` Markus E Leypold 0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-10 22:25 UTC (permalink / raw) > Markus E Leypold <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVETHIS@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> writes: > >> Quite right. I'm only trolling on the license situation since I'm >> probably already infamous for my destructive relationship to >> licensing. The problem simply is, that the page AFAIS doesn't state >> a license (so I can do everything with the tool I want? -- strange) >> and that we can't assume you get the tool under *GPL since you can't >> give it to others under that circumstances w/o source. > > Reading the terms of use it's not obvious what meaning 'open source' > has! > > Of course, since they say "You may not decompile, reverse engineer or > otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the software." it's > possible that the terms of use are still draft .. Oh, I see. In _Terms of Use_. I wouldn't have looked there for the license, actually. Somewhere else at the site it's stated, it _will_ be available under amodified LGPL. The press release is a bit early, 'cause it says "Under the terms of the Ameos open source agreement, a \u201cclean\u201d open source version of Ameos, called OpenAmeos, has been created to ensure that anyone installing a new version of Ameos will be able to use it freely without encumbrances of any other source contributions. This version is freely downloadable at http://www.openameos.org." -- which obviously isn't happening yet. So it's not open source yet, and as I said, I'll believe it when it happens. Not to stab the gift horse, but wasn't the last "free" give-away from AONIX the "you now pay only for support" campaign, which turned out to mean: "if you already bought something very expensive". Technically right, but the "as it is with Linux" spin was completely off the mark. (Am I resentful? Perhaps. Still I think, the best marketing is if one doesn't have to spin it to an extent that will simply disappoint anyone who is really trying to open the box: Some people resent being bullshitted :-), not very much, but I won't forget it either). So AONIX and ScopeSET: Really, really beautiful if all this will become true: I'm also speaking as an ex-teacher -- we've been missing tools like this sorely also and especially in teaching. The press release, though is a bit early: I won't count my chickens before they're hatched. Regards -- Markus ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 17:08 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-10 18:28 ` Georg Bauhaus 2007-07-10 19:51 ` Simon Wright @ 2007-07-10 20:14 ` Martin 2007-07-10 22:35 ` Markus E Leypold 2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Martin @ 2007-07-10 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw) On Jul 10, 6:08 pm, Markus E Leypold <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVET...@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> wrote: [snip] > licensing. The problem simply is, that the page AFAIS doesn't state a > license (so I can do everything with the tool I want? -- strange) and > that we can't assume you get the tool under *GPL since you can't give > it to others under that circumstances w/o source. Well the Aonix press release states: "Under the new open source policy, Ameos is available under terms based on the GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL) as OpenAmeos." Which sounds promising to me! :-) Cheers -- Martin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 20:14 ` Martin @ 2007-07-10 22:35 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-17 0:38 ` dave.wood 0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-10 22:35 UTC (permalink / raw) > On Jul 10, 6:08 pm, Markus E Leypold > <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVET...@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> wrote: > [snip] >> licensing. The problem simply is, that the page AFAIS doesn't state a >> license (so I can do everything with the tool I want? -- strange) and >> that we can't assume you get the tool under *GPL since you can't give >> it to others under that circumstances w/o source. > > Well the Aonix press release states: > > "Under the new open source policy, Ameos is available > under terms based on the GNU Lesser General Public > License (LGPL) as OpenAmeos." > > Which sounds promising to me! :-) Yes, _promising_. But at the moment there is only an executable, no source. And I have been wondering about the license this executable is under, since anybody getting it, can't resditribute it under the LGPL/modified-whatever, because, well he hasn't gotten the source (and probably not not LGPL license too, because that would guarantee him the source). Murky legal questions are lurking there in the dark. I wonder why people do things like this, instead of just going public when the source IS there. Or getting the press release right (saying the're now free-as-beer but intent to go open). As I interpret the terms of use: This version, presently available is free-as-in-beer. What will happen in future, we will have to see and the press release is at least 2 weeks early: "is available" should better read "will be available" -- and I notice they give no deadline for that either. (Does anybody remember OpenDOS, the former DR-DOS: Should have become available as open source, first they made a binary release, there even was some (non-compiling) source code available for a very limited time under a not-so-open license. Said they needed to clean up. And they cleaned and cleaned and after a number of months (more than 12, I remember), they (I think it even was Caldera) decided that OpenDOS was an asset and they decide not to open it up. Wow. Cool publicity stunt. Not that I say that is what Aonix intends, but after more than 2 decades in the industry I believe only in deeds rather than promises.) Regards -- Markus ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-10 22:35 ` Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-17 0:38 ` dave.wood 2007-07-17 7:56 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-17 9:36 ` Georg Bauhaus 0 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: dave.wood @ 2007-07-17 0:38 UTC (permalink / raw) On Jul 10, 3:35 pm, Markus E Leypold <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVET...@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> wrote: > > On Jul 10, 6:08 pm, Markus E Leypold > > <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVET...@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> wrote: > > > Well the Aonix press release states: > > > "Under the new open source policy, Ameos is available > > under terms based on the GNU Lesser General Public > > License (LGPL) as OpenAmeos." > > > Which sounds promising to me! :-) > > Yes, _promising_. But at the moment there is only an executable, no > source. And I have been wondering about the license this executable is > under, since anybody getting it, can't resditribute it under the > LGPL/modified-whatever, because, well he hasn't gotten the source (and > probably not not LGPL license too, because that would guarantee him > the source). > > Murky legal questions are lurking there in the dark. It's not a big mystery unless people want to create one. We are simply making the sources publicly available under terms based on LGPL. > > I wonder why people do things like this, instead of just going public > when the source IS there. Or getting the press release right (saying > the're now free-as-beer but intent to go open). Are we evil or are we incompetent? One of the mysteries of life... > > As I interpret the terms of use: This version, presently available is > free-as-in-beer. What will happen in future, we will have to see and > the press release is at least 2 weeks early: "is available" should > better read "will be available" -- and I notice they give no deadline > for that either. We decided to put Ameos into open source, and we made certain sources available IMMEDIATELY to existing Ameos users on an as-needed basis. As such "is available" is not inaccurate. We also went ahead and announced the open sourcing so other people would know about it. I don't want to debate press release semantics, but IMO this one is fine. Why the delay? The reality is that a couple components of the sources need to be "cleansed" of encumbrances before the sources can be put on the web site for general availability. To be distinquished, this cleansed version is called OpenAmeos. This should happen within a few weeks. Unless you happened to have a burning need for Ameos sources RIGHT NOW, I wouldn't expect this interim period to be too painful for anybody. As you can see, the executable is provided for anyone with actual work needing to be done, and is indeed free as beer and will make you almost as happy as drinking free beer. > > (Does anybody remember OpenDOS, the former DR-DOS: Should have become > available as open source, first they made a binary release, there even > was some (non-compiling) source code available for a very limited time > under a not-so-open license. Said they needed to clean up. And they > cleaned and cleaned and after a number of months (more than 12, I > remember), they (I think it even was Caldera) decided that OpenDOS was > an asset and they decide not to open it up. Wow. Cool publicity > stunt. Not that I say that is what Aonix intends, but after more than > 2 decades in the industry I believe only in deeds rather than > promises.) Quite frankly, I would not waste my time on such nonsense, but after two (and a half) decades in the industry, such cynicism doesn't surprise me. :) The OpenAmeos sources and LGPL license agreement will appear "soon" on the OpenAmeos.org web site. Please enjoy your free software, and free sources, which follow many, many years of hard work by many talented engineers. Regards, Dave Wood VP Marketing Aonix ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-17 0:38 ` dave.wood @ 2007-07-17 7:56 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-17 18:41 ` dave.wood 2007-07-17 9:36 ` Georg Bauhaus 1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-17 7:56 UTC (permalink / raw) > On Jul 10, 3:35 pm, Markus E Leypold > <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVET...@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> wrote: >> > On Jul 10, 6:08 pm, Markus E Leypold >> > <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVET...@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> wrote: >> >> > Well the Aonix press release states: >> >> > "Under the new open source policy, Ameos is available >> > under terms based on the GNU Lesser General Public >> > License (LGPL) as OpenAmeos." >> >> > Which sounds promising to me! :-) >> >> Yes, _promising_. But at the moment there is only an executable, no >> source. And I have been wondering about the license this executable is >> under, since anybody getting it, can't resditribute it under the >> LGPL/modified-whatever, because, well he hasn't gotten the source (and >> probably not not LGPL license too, because that would guarantee him >> the source). >> >> Murky legal questions are lurking there in the dark. > > It's not a big mystery unless people want to create one. We are simply > making the sources publicly available under terms based on LGPL. So there is no GPL version available. The available excutable is free-as-in-beer and cannot be re-distributed. That's it. For the moment. >> I wonder why people do things like this, instead of just going public >> when the source IS there. Or getting the press release right (saying >> the're now free-as-beer but intent to go open). > > Are we evil or are we incompetent? One of the mysteries of life... Ask me. Can you shed some light on the grammatical tense in the press release: It's rather clearly present tense (Ameos is available") whereas the source release hasn't happened yet (or didn't have happened at that time), so should actual have been future tense, don't you think so? Actually I think (as much as I will thank you when the code is available) that is a good reason not to get cute now ("are we evil or ..."), when I point out the apparent disagreement between press release and actual fact. >> As I interpret the terms of use: This version, presently available is >> free-as-in-beer. What will happen in future, we will have to see and >> the press release is at least 2 weeks early: "is available" should >> better read "will be available" -- and I notice they give no deadline >> for that either. > > We decided to put Ameos into open source, and we made certain sources > available IMMEDIATELY to existing Ameos users on an as-needed basis. Oh, I underststand. That wasn't what the press release suggested, though. > As such "is available" is not inaccurate. We also went ahead and Look, I'm not intrested in a flame war at the moment, but a "well, that was not quite right, sorry, but we're take pains to make it happen as already announced" would perhaps be a better strategy to handle that than trying to spin it as if you're just right and I didn't just read or interpret the press release right. I hate it when people try to distort the language. The press release unfortunately says things that haven't happened yet. We all hope they will happen, but until then I just _postpone_ judgement (instead of refraining from it altogether). > announced the open sourcing so other people would know about it. I > don't want to debate press release semantics, but IMO this one is > fine. No, it isn't. "will be available soon" and/or "already has been made available to selected users" would have be the correct phrasing. Please don't argue about that: I'd hate to have to come to the conclusion that Aonix had a general problem with veracity concerning press releases, see our laster encounter in this group concerning the "free availability" of the compiler. > Why the delay? The reality is that a couple components of the sources > need to be "cleansed" of encumbrances before the sources can be put on > the web site for general availability. You've my absolute sympathy and understanding conerning ther problems in cleaning up and packaging formerly proprietary source. Please understand that my irritation is not related to the OpenAmeos effort in itself which I find rather commendable and a big value for the community, but rather mor with the (unfortunately again) problematic wording of the press release, > To be distinquished, this > cleansed version is called OpenAmeos. > This should happen within a few weeks. Unless you happened to have a > burning need for Ameos sources RIGHT NOW, I wouldn't expect this > interim period to be too painful for anybody. No, I can wait, as probably can most people. > As you can see, the executable is provided for anyone with actual > work needing to be done, and is indeed free as beer and will make > you almost as happy as drinking free beer. >> (Does anybody remember OpenDOS, the former DR-DOS: Should have become >> available as open source, first they made a binary release, there even >> was some (non-compiling) source code available for a very limited time >> under a not-so-open license. Said they needed to clean up. And they >> cleaned and cleaned and after a number of months (more than 12, I >> remember), they (I think it even was Caldera) decided that OpenDOS was >> an asset and they decide not to open it up. Wow. Cool publicity >> stunt. Not that I say that is what Aonix intends, but after more than >> 2 decades in the industry I believe only in deeds rather than >> promises.) > > Quite frankly, I would not waste my time on such nonsense, but after > two (and a half) decades in the industry, such cynicism doesn't > surprise me. :) I hope it doesn't surprise you in the sense of "I understand fromw which precedences it comes from" instead of "I'm not surprise considering the number of nonsensical talkers in the industry". After all vapour ware press releases are nothing new and even well intented open release initiatives run into trouble when cleaning up the source (i.e. checking other peoples rights turns up deeply entangled components that cannot be easily removed/replaced) and giev limited resources and -- also not uncommon -- secondary priority get postponed, first for a finite intervall, then longer, than infinitely and that's it. So you will understand that I believe in a source release when I see the source (not earlier and I don't want to speculate about probabilities) and that I believe in viablity of the project when I see a community of 3rd party contributors forming around it. Not earlier. (Indeed I'm mostly interested in how and wether it is possible to add support for other OO languages to the backend). > The OpenAmeos sources and LGPL license agreement will appear "soon" on > the OpenAmeos.org web site. Please enjoy your free software, and free > sources, which follow many, many years of hard work by many talented > engineers. Well -- I'm really looking forward to it. Regards -- Markus ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-17 7:56 ` Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-17 18:41 ` dave.wood 2007-07-17 19:09 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-17 19:12 ` Markus E Leypold 0 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: dave.wood @ 2007-07-17 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw) Markus, I'm certainly not flaming you. Simply being light-hearted if anything. I prefer to focus on the big picture, and the big picture is a happy one: we have made excellent and valuable technology freely available. Please enjoy it. Regarding the press release, I would apologize if I felt it was appropriate to do so. I do not. The techno was legally placed into open source at the time of the press release (actually a few weeks before). The only question is ease of public access. As of that time the sources were already in the hands of people who immediately needed it. As I've described, there is a slight delay for general public availability because some third party IP cleansing is required. I did not know about that at the time of the press release, but if I had I would have gone ahead anyway because making the info available is more important, although certainly a word or two might have been tweaked. I should point out that my contact info is on each press release, and anyone with questions is welcome to contact me. It would prove more productive than speculating on minutia on comp.lang.ada because I don't personally monitor this group. Regards, Dave Wood VP Marketing Aonix ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-17 18:41 ` dave.wood @ 2007-07-17 19:09 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-17 19:12 ` Markus E Leypold 1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-17 19:09 UTC (permalink / raw) > Please enjoy it. I will. I hope, I will. > Regarding the press release, I would apologize if I felt it was > appropriate to do so. I do not. The techno was legally placed into > open source at the time of the press release (actually a few weeks > before). The only question is ease of public access. OK, I understand. > As of that time > the sources were already in the hands of people who immediately needed > it. As I've described, there is a slight delay for general public > availability because some third party IP cleansing is required. I did > not know about that at the time of the press release, but if I had I > would have gone ahead anyway because making the info available is more > important, although certainly a word or two might have been tweaked. That would have been advisable. What is available now to selected persons, is, obviously, not what will be available. A small difference. It's slips like that that generate -- well -- suspicion. > I should point out that my contact info is on each press release, and > anyone with questions is welcome to contact me. It would prove more > productive than speculating on minutia on comp.lang.ada because I > don't personally monitor this group. Well, public is public. The danger of press releases is, that they will be discussed. Somewhere else, probably. You being VP of merketing should know how that is: There is no way to unpublish information and what you said stays said and it doesn't count what it should have meant, just what is written. I'm actually less interested to know NOW what will happen (that will be seen when it comes), but more in the (contradictory) semantics of the release. My issue is/was not what Aonix will do (only the future will tell for sure :-), but, admittedly splitting hairs. I didn't have any questions. Being the cynic that I am, I'll continue to split hairs in the license soup when I find them. Actually to discourage speculations it would have been prudent to (a) use the future tense in the press release (we're back to quare 1 here) and (b) make the actual license already available at the site (w/o hiding it in a executable, that is). May I suggest that this could still be done before the source becomes available? Regards -- Markus ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-17 18:41 ` dave.wood 2007-07-17 19:09 ` Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-17 19:12 ` Markus E Leypold 1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-17 19:12 UTC (permalink / raw) > Markus, > > I'm certainly not flaming you. Simply being light-hearted if anything. No, I didn't insinuate this. I only acknowledged that my insistence on some things might have the potential to become a flame war. > I prefer to focus on the big picture, and the big picture is a happy > one: we have made excellent and valuable technology freely available. Not yet. Sorry, I have to insist: not yet. I don't have a time machine. Regards -- Markus > Please enjoy it. > > Regarding the press release, I would apologize if I felt it was > appropriate to do so. I do not. The techno was legally placed into > open source at the time of the press release (actually a few weeks > before). The only question is ease of public access. As of that time > the sources were already in the hands of people who immediately needed > it. As I've described, there is a slight delay for general public > availability because some third party IP cleansing is required. I did > not know about that at the time of the press release, but if I had I > would have gone ahead anyway because making the info available is more > important, although certainly a word or two might have been tweaked. > > I should point out that my contact info is on each press release, and > anyone with questions is welcome to contact me. It would prove more > productive than speculating on minutia on comp.lang.ada because I > don't personally monitor this group. > > Regards, > > Dave Wood > VP Marketing > Aonix ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-17 0:38 ` dave.wood 2007-07-17 7:56 ` Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-17 9:36 ` Georg Bauhaus 2007-07-17 10:10 ` Markus E Leypold 1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2007-07-17 9:36 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mon, 2007-07-16 at 17:38 -0700, dave.wood@aonix.com wrote: > The OpenAmeos sources and LGPL license agreement will appear "soon" on > the OpenAmeos.org web site. Please enjoy your free software, and free > sources, which follow many, many years of hard work by many talented > engineers. Indeed, the software has made me see the tools again that I once had an opportunity to evaluate (as StP/UML). I'd like to point out that Ameos has a number of features not usually present in UML tools. Among these are linking parts of specification documents to parts of the model and performing model checks. IIRC, code generation is/was based on a template mechanism (these were updated/reworked/... some time ago). FWIW, the license text can be read now by performing an installation of the software. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-17 9:36 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2007-07-17 10:10 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-17 10:43 ` Georg Bauhaus 0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-17 10:10 UTC (permalink / raw) > On Mon, 2007-07-16 at 17:38 -0700, dave.wood@aonix.com wrote: > >> The OpenAmeos sources and LGPL license agreement will appear "soon" on >> the OpenAmeos.org web site. Please enjoy your free software, and free >> sources, which follow many, many years of hard work by many talented >> engineers. > > Indeed, the software has made me see the tools again that I > once had an opportunity to evaluate (as StP/UML). I'd like to point > out that Ameos has a number of features not usually present > in UML tools. Among these are linking parts of specification > documents to parts of the model and performing model checks. Cool, absolutely cool. Does anybody know how well specified the intermediate format is, i.e. how difficult it would be to write backends for other languages? > IIRC, code generation is/was based on a template mechanism (these > were updated/reworked/... some time ago). That sounds as if it would be easy (well, comparably to developing a UML tool from scratch). > FWIW, the license text can be read now by performing an > installation of the software. Ah good. But am I right in supposing it's at the moment a dont-redistribute-License? Regards -- Markus PS: To forstall the question "why don't you just install it?": I haven't got the time at the moment and -- as always with me -- it's essential that it runs with Linux: I hardly ever evaluate Windows-only software just out of curiosity (i.e. if there is no project which would profit immediately from the software). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-17 10:10 ` Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-17 10:43 ` Georg Bauhaus 2007-07-17 12:10 ` Markus E Leypold 0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2007-07-17 10:43 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 12:10 +0200, Markus E Leypold wrote: > > FWIW, the license text can be read now by performing an > > installation of the software. > > Ah good. But am I right in supposing it's at the moment a > dont-redistribute-License? Saying that the license text is based on the LGPL is a good characterization, I think. (AFAICS they ask you not to do a few things with Ameos itself. For example, create your own Ameos and then give it away without ScopeSET being involved. Please, don't take this sentence as literally describing things.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: New open source UML tool including Ada support 2007-07-17 10:43 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2007-07-17 12:10 ` Markus E Leypold 0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread From: Markus E Leypold @ 2007-07-17 12:10 UTC (permalink / raw) > On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 12:10 +0200, Markus E Leypold wrote: > >> > FWIW, the license text can be read now by performing an >> > installation of the software. >> >> Ah good. But am I right in supposing it's at the moment a >> dont-redistribute-License? > > Saying that the license text is based on the LGPL is a good > characterization, I think. So the license of the existing executable is already based on LGPL? And I have to add the sources of the executable if I redistribute it. How quaint, given that there are no sources yet. > (AFAICS they ask you not to do a few things with Ameos itself. > For example, create your own Ameos and then give it away without > ScopeSET being involved. Please, don't take this sentence as > literally describing things.) If there is a condition in any way similar to that, that would actually remove the 'GP' from LGPL. Because the essence of (l)GPL is the right to redistribute _modified_ code. In case one wants to (L)GPL-open-source one's code, one has to live with that provision, I think. Usually others don't have the resources anyway, but the option and the effort to fork defines the level of protection of the user/distributor against arbitray release and support policy (and unforseaable changes thereof) by the main developers: If things become unbearable, the cost to fork is finite (see the Joomla/Mambo split as an example) instead of virtually inifinite (if a fork is excluded). I seriously hope the condition you're talking about is only a request not really a license condition. If the situation is really like you say, using (L)GPL to advertise for the code would be impertinent. Would a "don't distribute modified code on your license" even be approved by OSI? (I will have to look that up). Regards -- Markus PS: Unfortunately one can't see the license at the site w/o downloading and runnng the exe-file. Even trying to unpack the exe-file doesn't work for (it doesn't seem to be a "standard" self extracing executable). I can't (i.e. don't want to) run any untested software on the build reference machines now, so this will have to wait. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-07-17 19:12 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 21+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2007-07-10 9:38 New open source UML tool including Ada support Martin 2007-07-10 13:10 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-10 15:53 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen 2007-07-10 16:09 ` Martin 2007-07-10 16:10 ` Martin 2007-07-10 17:08 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-10 18:28 ` Georg Bauhaus 2007-07-10 19:11 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-10 19:51 ` Simon Wright 2007-07-10 22:25 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-10 20:14 ` Martin 2007-07-10 22:35 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-17 0:38 ` dave.wood 2007-07-17 7:56 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-17 18:41 ` dave.wood 2007-07-17 19:09 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-17 19:12 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-17 9:36 ` Georg Bauhaus 2007-07-17 10:10 ` Markus E Leypold 2007-07-17 10:43 ` Georg Bauhaus 2007-07-17 12:10 ` Markus E Leypold
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