Re: An Ada Advice Inquiry

[Maciej Sobczak <see.my.homepage@gmail.com>]

On 6 Maj, 17:47, <adawo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> My original inquiry was about whether any new projects are being
> started in Ada.

That's right - I therefore apologise for the harsh tone of my previous
post.

> I think the C++ people would be unlikely to have
> an answer to that question.

They might, however, tell you how their experiences changed over the
last decade. The truth is that C++ earned its bad reputation some
years ago and today using these old slogans over and over is as useful
as saying that Ada is useful only for US defense industry.

> What I have learned, from contributions to me inbox and comments
> in this forum, is that a great many new projects are being started in
> Ada.

Which is a good news. Still, what is missing is publicity. You say
that nobody is aware of Ada (and so nobody wants to start new Ada
projects) and at the same time that there are many secret projects
started in it. It doesn't make much sense.

> As usual, quite a few of my correspondents have asked not
> to be quoted/cited.

And that's why these guys will write their next project in Java. Or
Groovy.

> I have also had some "buyer's remorse" messages.   That is, more than
> a few of those email messages have said how disappointed they are
> with the decision to use C++ instead of Ada.  The C++ decision has
> not been as sucessful as they had hoped, and there is some wishful
> thinking that they would have been better to have stayed with Ada.

"Stayed" - so these are Ada guys who switched to C++? Why?
If they already had Ada experience and the necessary inertia in the
organization, why they have switched? They should not.
It doesn't make much sense to bash C++ if these people are not
successful after the forced switch. This will happen in any direction.
Take some experienced C++ team, force them to switch to Ada and you
will hear the same complaints. I'm a C++ programmer and I've tried to
write some things in Ada - now I can complain about Ada as long as you
are willing to listen.
The past experience of the team is probably more important than
anything else when choosing the technology for the next project.

I think that you are not getting any balanced feedback.

> Now that the code is written in C++, they have to live with the agony
> of C++ while longing for the ecstasy of Ada.

I can imagine the contrary. It's a matter of where you come from.

> As to the suggestion that I make this inquiry of the C++ forums,
> my experience is that the vast number of C++ users are woefully
> ignorant about Ada.

This is, unfortunately, very true. And from my own perspective I can
tell that C++ programmers can benefit from learning Ada.
But note that learning != switching.
Sorry: learning /= switching. ;-)

> On the other hand, C++ is so obnoxiously ubiquitous
> that a person who uses Ada cannot avoid C, C++, or Java.

Are you sure that people who "cannot avoid" something have the same
experiences as those who are "dedicated users" of something?
I think that the difference is fundamental and significantly
influences the feedback that you can get from them.

> Ada is not perfect for every project.
> There are other languages that have great virtue for different kinds
> of projects.   However, as nearly as I can tell, at this point in the
> world of programming, C++ has outlived its usefulness for most
> of the tasks for which it was once used.

I'm afraid it's not yet dead and the recent (well, upcoming) standard
moves it forward much more than Ada did in its last standard
iteration. This means that the choice between C++ and Ada might be
even more difficult for you in the future.

> It has become the close
> equivalent of an object-oriented Assembler, forcing a lot of
> programmers to focus on low-level concerns that ought to be
> a marginal aspect of modern software engineering.

I think that this is exactly where you miss that last couple of years.
I really don't remember when was the last time I cared about low-level
concerns in C++. Unless I had to (that is, it was actually the goal),
but then nothing was obstructing my goals neither.

Our experiences are apparently different.

--
Maciej Sobczak
http://www.msobczak.com/