From: "Case Crab" <casecrab@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: why learn C?
Date: 29 Mar 2007 23:30:12 -0700
Date: 2007-03-29T23:30:12-07:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <1175236212.771445.135460@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1175230352.808212.15550@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>
On Mar 29, 10:52 pm, "jimmaureenrog...@worldnet.att.net"
<jimmaureenrog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> On Mar 29, 6:51 pm, "kevin cline" <kevin.cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No, what actually happened is that expert C++ developers learned to
> > use C++ in such a way that those errors can not happen. While it is
> > possible to write unsafe code in C++, it is also possible to adopt
> > coding guidelines that makes it easy to find and eliminate unsafe
> > code, and for most applications, that's quite good enough.
>
> Coding guidelines cannot by themselves prevent any errors.
Really? I have found that coding practices can preclude certain
classes of errors.
> For example,
> the JSF AV C++ Coding Standard, which is intended to limit the unsafe
> features of C++, contains 221 rules.
How many rules distinguish SPARK from the full Ada language?
> It is not possible to check
> 6 million lines of code against 221 rules by hand in any timely or
> economical manner.
I expect that most of the checking can and will be done
automatically. In any case, I would expect such
mission-critical code would be inspected, regardless of whether the
implementation language is C++ or Ada.
>
> The NASA Ada Flight Software coding guidelines contain 14 rules.
> The intent of both coding standards is to produce software safe enough
> to use for airborne avionics systems.
Interesting that one organization has 221 rules while the other has
only 14.
> Coding standards can help up to a point. When the coding standards are
> oppresively complex they cease to help.
Compile-time checks can also help, up to a point. But they don't
solve the whole problem.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-03-30 6:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 167+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <1172144043.746296.44680@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>
[not found] ` <slrnetr31o.875.Marc.Boyer@localhost.localdomain>
[not found] ` <1172161751.573558.24140@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
[not found] ` <slrnetri6j.875.Marc.Boyer@localhost.localdomain>
[not found] ` <546qkhF1tr7dtU1@mid.individual.net>
2007-02-23 8:09 ` why learn C? Marc Boyer
2007-03-20 17:37 ` adaworks
2007-03-21 8:07 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-03-21 13:39 ` Martin Krischik
2007-03-22 7:54 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-03-21 14:10 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-21 17:57 ` adaworks
2007-03-21 18:48 ` adaworks
2007-03-21 18:39 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-21 20:09 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-21 20:25 ` Use of declare blocks Randy Brukardt
2007-03-21 20:36 ` Gautier
2007-03-21 20:37 ` Gautier
2007-03-21 20:43 ` Niklas Holsti
2007-03-21 21:29 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-22 1:17 ` Adam Beneschan
2007-03-22 8:34 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-22 1:06 ` Adam Beneschan
2007-03-22 17:59 ` adaworks
2007-03-23 2:35 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-23 5:23 ` adaworks
2007-03-23 5:15 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-23 10:20 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-23 18:25 ` commenting, was " tmoran
2007-03-24 0:32 ` adaworks
2007-03-24 2:12 ` tmoran
2007-03-24 3:19 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-24 7:36 ` tmoran
2007-03-24 15:35 ` Simon Wright
2007-03-21 13:29 ` why learn C? Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-03-30 0:51 ` kevin cline
2007-03-30 4:09 ` Steve
2007-03-30 4:58 ` kevin cline
2007-03-30 7:44 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2007-03-30 9:09 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02 4:29 ` kevin cline
2007-04-02 6:45 ` adaworks
2007-04-02 7:52 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02 8:19 ` kevin cline
2007-04-02 12:04 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02 23:37 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-03 12:42 ` Erasing inappropriate operations (was: why learn C?) Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-03 23:44 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-04 8:34 ` Erasing inappropriate operations Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-04 22:00 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-03 0:16 ` why learn C? Markus E Leypold
2007-04-04 16:14 ` jayessay
2007-04-05 7:14 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-05 15:35 ` jayessay
2007-04-06 2:02 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-06 5:57 ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-06 11:01 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-07 23:00 ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-08 19:41 ` jayessay
2007-04-09 14:08 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 15:48 ` jayessay
2007-04-08 19:44 ` jayessay
2007-04-06 18:05 ` jayessay
2007-04-06 22:00 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-06 23:46 ` jayessay
2007-04-06 23:59 ` jayessay
2007-04-06 22:16 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-06 23:52 ` jayessay
2007-04-07 0:39 ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-06 17:52 ` jayessay
2007-03-30 8:29 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30 8:35 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30 17:39 ` adaworks
2007-03-31 14:59 ` Steve
2007-03-31 15:59 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-01 14:32 ` Ed Falis
2007-04-02 7:03 ` adaworks
2007-03-31 15:14 ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-02 5:27 ` kevin cline
2007-04-02 6:04 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-04-02 6:33 ` Shortage on C / C++ experts Martin Krischik
2007-04-02 7:07 ` why learn C? adaworks
2007-04-02 7:18 ` kevin cline
2007-04-02 13:00 ` adaworks
2007-04-12 15:28 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 18:32 ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-13 15:59 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-14 22:20 ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14 22:46 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-22 18:53 ` adaworks
2007-04-22 19:50 ` Gautier
2007-04-03 0:26 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-03 0:34 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-03 2:22 ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-04-12 15:47 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 16:18 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-13 23:18 ` kevin cline
2007-04-14 9:38 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-14 10:57 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 15:10 ` Simon Wright
2007-04-15 16:05 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 0:59 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-15 15:28 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-12 16:39 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 20:54 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-12 20:33 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 21:40 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-12 20:50 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-13 0:32 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-14 22:27 ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14 1:20 ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-04-02 5:03 ` Brian May
2007-04-02 6:16 ` kevin cline
2007-04-03 0:00 ` Brian May
2007-04-12 15:56 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 16:19 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-13 23:42 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-03 0:13 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-02 11:47 ` Shortage on C / C++ experts Larry Kilgallen
2007-04-02 12:01 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-02 12:15 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02 18:47 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-04-02 20:43 ` tmoran
2007-03-30 4:52 ` why learn C? jimmaureenrogers
2007-03-30 6:30 ` Case Crab [this message]
2007-03-30 6:37 ` Gautier
2007-03-30 9:17 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-31 13:18 ` Peter C. Chapin
2007-04-01 1:23 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-01 11:59 ` Peter C. Chapin
2007-04-02 6:37 ` kevin cline
2007-04-02 9:39 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-03-30 17:47 ` adaworks
2007-03-30 19:25 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30 20:29 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-31 9:52 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-01 1:35 ` adaworks
2007-03-31 2:41 ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-03-31 12:25 ` not NASA Ada coding standard Stephen Leake
2007-03-31 15:44 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-01 16:22 ` Simon Clubley
2007-04-02 10:08 ` Stephen Leake
2007-04-02 7:43 ` why learn C? kevin cline
2007-04-02 8:45 ` Martin Krischik
2007-04-02 10:54 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-12 16:05 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 16:48 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 18:27 ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-13 16:21 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 21:11 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-13 15:45 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-02 8:13 ` kevin cline
2007-04-02 23:54 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-03 2:58 ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-04-12 16:24 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 18:05 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 0:55 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-15 7:55 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-15 15:25 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-31 11:40 ` Larry Kilgallen
[not found] ` <1175236212.771445.135460@y66g2Organization: LJK Software <c82IfUV$xbi8@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2007-03-31 18:56 ` adaworks
2007-03-31 20:10 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-01 18:13 ` tmoran
2007-03-31 19:33 ` Cesar Rabak
2007-03-31 20:11 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30 8:16 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30 9:10 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-30 19:16 ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-01 11:41 ` Martin Krischik
2007-04-01 17:03 ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-01 18:13 ` tmoran
2007-04-16 2:09 ` Brian May
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