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From: "Ludovic Brenta" <ludovic@ludovic-brenta.org>
Subject: Re: GNAT GPL 2005 Edition is now available
Date: 16 Sep 2005 05:59:03 -0700
Date: 2005-09-16T05:59:03-07:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1126875543.239666.325290@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <873bo5jjb6.fsf@willow.rfc1149.net>

Samuel Tardieu a écrit :
> Do you think that the DoD (the funder of the early GNAT versions)
> intent was to restrict the use of GNAT to programs using the GPL
> license and to AdaCore (which didn't exist) customers?

I think the DoD didn't care, because it had the money to pay for
any license it required.  Or maybe they'd have insisted on GPL
for everyone except the DoD, for fear that the Russians would build
military software with GNAT :)

By the same token, I don't think that current paying customers of
AdaCore care.  I think that the only ones who are really hurt by
AdaCore's decision are the SMEs and individuals who want to write
commercial software in Ada, but don't have the money to pay for
AdaCore's (or other companies') support contracts.  Like I said,
these non-customers of AdaCore's are a potential market.

> The real problem is not technical. It is still possible to build a
> "clean" compiler which can be used on any kind of sources. The problem
> is political. AdaCore's move causes a lot of confusion in the
> community and may make companies unsure of what they can and can't do.

I agree that there is confusion.  A lot of companies would like "free
software" to be free for companies; it isn't.  It is "free" for end
users.  It gives freedoms to end users and imposes requirements on
companies or producers of software.  Additional confusion is fueled
by "open source" (business- friendly attitude) and by the multiplicity
of licenses.

> I think it would have been much better if AdaCore had kept the GMGPL
> version, or if they had not complicated everything by providing
> GPL-only packages. The situation was simple (be an AdaCore customer or
> get your compiler from another source such as a GNU/Linux distribution
> or build it from FSF sources), it is now ugly (in some cases, you can
> get a GNAT compiler which doesn't allow you to use a GPL-incompatible
> license for your source code if you intend to redistribute the
> result).

Yes, I agree it is ugly to have multiple sources for the same software
under different licenses.   I hope that once the vote is over (next
Tuesday), the ugliness will be dealt with for good, at least as far as
Debian is concerned.  BTW, Tapio Kelloniemi suggested providing both
GNAT GPL 2005 Edition and GCC 4.0 in Debian.  I will not support two
different GNATs in Debian, especially if they have different licenses.

> I still fail to understand this tactical move.

Me too, but as I said, AdaCore is under no obligation to explain.  If
they care to explain, I'm all ears, of course.

My message is that nobody has a right to *complain* about AdaCore's
decision, or even demand an explanation; but people should decide for
themselves what to do about it.  The vote is designed to do just that.

I anticipate that (1) this public vote will show that a majority of
software developers reject the GPL for libgnat, (2) Debian will not
include GNAT GPL 2005 Edition, (3) no other distribution will, and
(4) AdaCore will probably take that into account when they think about
a new public release.

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.




  reply	other threads:[~2005-09-16 12:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 203+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-09-15  6:50 GNAT GPL 2005 Edition is now available Jamie Ayre
2005-09-15  7:34 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-15  8:44   ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-15  9:27     ` Martin Dowie
2005-09-15 10:03       ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-15  9:33     ` Brian May
2005-09-15 10:15       ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-15 22:58         ` Brian May
2005-09-15  9:39     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-15 10:50     ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-15 11:19       ` Stephane Riviere
2005-09-15 11:30     ` GtkAda and GPL/GMGPL, was: Re: GNAT GPL 2005 Edition is Simon Clubley
2005-09-15 11:42       ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-15 12:00     ` GNAT GPL 2005 Edition is now available Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-15 12:44       ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-15 12:55         ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-15 13:37       ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-18 15:24       ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-15 13:01     ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2005-09-15 15:39       ` Martin Dowie
2005-09-15 16:09         ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-09-15 17:27       ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2005-09-15 23:26         ` Jeff Creem
2005-09-16  0:02           ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2005-09-16  1:37             ` Jeff Creem
2005-09-16 15:16           ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-15 14:27     ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-15 15:35       ` Andreas Schwarz
2005-09-15 16:44         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-15 17:05           ` Niklas Holsti
2005-09-15 17:17           ` Adrien Plisson
2005-09-15 18:08             ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-15 20:39               ` almost free development tools (Was: GNAT GPL 2005 Edition is now available) Adrien Plisson
2005-09-15 18:18           ` GNAT GPL 2005 Edition is now available Martin Krischik
2005-09-18 16:10           ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-15 18:14         ` Martin Krischik
2005-09-15 22:59           ` Andreas Schwarz
2005-09-15 17:20       ` Simon Clubley
2005-09-15 17:43       ` chris
2005-09-15 18:58       ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-15 21:08         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-15 21:24           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-18 16:10             ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-19 12:44               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-19 16:08                 ` Pascal Obry
2005-09-19 16:20                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-15 21:25           ` Tapio Kelloniemi
2005-09-15 21:28             ` Tapio Kelloniemi
2005-09-16  8:28               ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-16 10:41                 ` Tapio Kelloniemi
2005-09-18 16:01           ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-15 23:21         ` GNAT GPL 2005 Edition is now available - A Vote and some other comments Jeff Creem
2005-09-18 15:48         ` GNAT GPL 2005 Edition is now available Florian Weimer
2005-09-18 18:10           ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-15 20:32       ` Tapio Kelloniemi
2005-09-16 12:36       ` xavier
2005-09-16 21:57       ` Björn Persson
2005-09-17 10:05         ` [OT] Reasons for using Debian (Was: GNAT GPL 2005 Edition is now available) Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-17 17:41           ` Björn Persson
2005-09-18 16:17           ` [OT] Reasons for using Debian Florian Weimer
2005-09-18 15:42       ` GNAT GPL 2005 Edition is now available Florian Weimer
2005-09-18 16:15         ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-18 16:39           ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-18 17:05             ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-20  9:50               ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-20 10:28                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-18 17:32             ` Martin Krischik
2005-09-18 18:25           ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-18 21:19             ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-19 13:06               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-15 16:01     ` Niklas Holsti
2005-09-15 16:27     ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-15 16:59       ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-15 18:42       ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-16  9:17     ` David Trudgett
2005-09-16 14:15     ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-18 13:13     ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-18 17:24       ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-19 14:12       ` Marc A. Criley
2005-09-20  5:09         ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-18 18:59     ` Niklas Holsti
2005-09-18 21:27       ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-19  7:23         ` Brian May
2005-09-19  7:49         ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-15  8:10 ` David Trudgett
2005-09-15  8:50   ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-15  8:56     ` wojtek
2005-09-15 18:08       ` Martin Krischik
2005-09-15 20:09         ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-15 22:33           ` Björn Persson
2005-09-15 23:13             ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-18 15:30           ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-19  7:56             ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-19 12:46               ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2005-09-19 20:08                 ` Björn Persson
2005-09-19 21:23             ` Björn Persson
2005-09-19 23:05         ` wojtek
2005-09-19 23:55           ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-09-21  7:17             ` Preben Randhol
2005-09-21 12:26               ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-09-21 13:22                 ` Preben Randhol
2005-09-20 13:50           ` Steve
2005-09-20 18:01             ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-20 19:10               ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-09-20 19:17                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-21  2:22               ` Steve
2005-09-21  4:48               ` Steve Whalen
2005-09-21 23:30           ` chris
2005-09-27  9:28             ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2005-09-15 18:06     ` Martin Krischik
2005-09-15 19:34       ` Martin Dowie
2005-09-15 20:14       ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-21  7:27         ` Preben Randhol
2005-09-21  7:57           ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-21  7:58           ` Brian May
2005-09-15 11:55   ` Jeff Creem
2005-09-16  8:36     ` David Trudgett
2005-09-16 10:14       ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-09-16 10:56         ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-16 12:20           ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-16 12:59             ` Ludovic Brenta [this message]
2005-09-16 13:58               ` Niklas Holsti
2005-09-16 15:37               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-17 14:09                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-16 16:45               ` Tapio Kelloniemi
2005-09-16 18:12                 ` Marc A. Criley
2005-09-17  6:58                   ` Martin Dowie
2005-09-17 10:20                     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-17 12:47                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-17 13:37                         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-17 14:17                       ` Martin Krischik
2005-09-17 17:42                         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-17 17:48                           ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-17 18:41                             ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-17 19:06                             ` Björn Persson
2005-09-17 20:39                               ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-17 22:59                                 ` Björn Persson
2005-09-17 23:32                                   ` tmoran
2005-09-18  0:25                                     ` Brian May
2005-09-18 15:35                           ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-17 13:08                     ` Marc A. Criley
2005-09-17 14:44                       ` Martin Dowie
2005-09-17 16:19                       ` Martin Dowie
2005-09-19 19:22                       ` Marc A. Criley
2005-09-21  7:57                     ` Preben Randhol
2005-09-21  8:25                       ` Niklas Holsti
2005-09-21  8:39                       ` Martin Dowie
2005-09-21  8:59                         ` Niklas Holsti
2005-09-21 11:02                           ` Martin Dowie
2005-09-21 13:20                             ` Alex R. Mosteo
2005-09-21 17:29                             ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-21 20:26                               ` Martin Dowie
2005-10-07  0:56                             ` Randy Brukardt
2005-09-21 13:47                       ` Marc A. Criley
2005-09-19  1:20                   ` chrismiller677
2005-09-19 11:24                     ` Brian May
2005-09-19 13:19                       ` Martin Dowie
2005-09-19 13:35                         ` Martin Dowie
2005-09-19 13:38                       ` Dirk Craeynest
2005-09-19 14:49                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-19 19:17                         ` Björn Persson
2005-09-19 11:39                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-21  7:56                   ` Preben Randhol
2005-09-21  8:03                     ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-21 10:57                       ` Preben Randhol
2005-09-21 10:58                         ` Preben Randhol
2005-09-21 12:11                         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-21 12:32                           ` Hyman Rosen
2005-09-21 13:03                             ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-09-21 13:16                           ` Preben Randhol
2005-09-21 13:49                             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-21 20:30                           ` Tapio Kelloniemi
2005-09-21 17:27                         ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-21 19:11                           ` Pascal Obry
2005-09-16 20:31               ` Björn Persson
2005-09-17  2:51               ` David Trudgett
2005-09-17  5:56                 ` Simon Wright
2005-09-17 14:31                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-17 15:55                   ` Martin Krischik
2005-09-16 13:26             ` Stephane Riviere
2005-09-16 15:44             ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-19  6:47               ` Steve Whalen
2005-09-19 23:49           ` wojtek
2005-09-20  0:06             ` wojtek
2005-09-19 12:57         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2005-09-16 10:56       ` Jeff Creem
2005-09-16 14:19         ` Marc A. Criley
2005-09-16 20:27         ` Björn Persson
2005-09-20  1:22         ` David Trudgett
2005-09-20  8:36           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-20 12:02           ` Hyman Rosen
2005-09-15  8:49 ` wojtek
2005-09-15 13:18   ` Thomas Quinot
2005-09-15 10:30 ` Brian May
2005-09-15 10:54   ` Friess Michael
2005-09-15 22:17     ` Brian May
2005-09-15 22:31       ` Britt Snodgrass
2005-09-15 15:11 ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-09-15 15:20   ` Ludovic Brenta
2005-09-15 16:08     ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-09-15 17:53     ` Simon Clubley
2005-09-15 22:10 ` Björn Persson
2005-09-15 23:19   ` Samuel Tardieu
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