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From: "Gene" <gene.ressler@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Surprise in array concatenation
Date: 5 Sep 2005 08:53:30 -0700
Date: 2005-09-05T08:53:30-07:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1125935610.797293.40550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Qf2dnUIZUaeLGoreRVn-2g@comcast.com>

Thanks for a great discussion.

I didn't say general array indexing is not useful; it obviously is. I
said it's marginally useful in the literal (economist's) sense of "at
the margin."  A few illustrations...

1) If one had to give up a feature in order to get another, many would
put general array indexing early on the chopping block. Between fixed
and dynamic length arrays (and in particular bounded/unbounded
strings), for example, Ada forces one to change from native array
syntax to a procedural interface that hides re-sizing details.  Ada
programmers I know would happily give up general index ranges in order
to get dynamically resizing arrays with native syntax---at least those
who have worked in other languages where such are available.

2) General integer ranges for array indices are a half-hearted---at the
margins---compromise wrt fully general arrays allowing any type as an
index.  In other words, if you put
(A) 1-based arrays,
(B) general discrete type array indices, and
(C) fully general arrays
on a conceptual scale, (B) lies _much_ closer to (A) than to (C).

3) The wonder of Ada is the predicatable, orthogonal way that syntax
and semantics correspond.  But we have just been observing that general
integer array indexing leads to a not-very-predictable behavior in
combination with slicing and catenation. If all arrays were 1-based,
the problem could not have occurred.  Hence this unhappy confluence of
features, by conflicting with Ada's philosophy, is at the semantic
margins of the language.  It ought to be avoided if the goal is code
with obvious meaning. E.g. after I re-coded my original example
"properly" with 'First and 'Range to make its behavior correct, I
quickly added a comment, -- 'First is not always 1.  How marginally
Ada!

Again best regards to all and thanks for the discussion.




  reply	other threads:[~2005-09-05 15:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 108+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-09-01  3:16 Surprise in array concatenation Gene
2005-09-01  7:55 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-01  8:02   ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-01 11:48     ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-01 12:02       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2005-09-01 13:01         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-01 15:54       ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-01 16:09     ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-05  8:38       ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-05 23:52         ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06  9:03           ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-07 17:57         ` adaworks
2005-09-07 20:01           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-08  8:08             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-07 22:46           ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-08  4:43             ` Simon Wright
2005-09-08 10:36               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-08 13:47                 ` Ed Falis
2005-09-08 17:03                   ` Pascal Obry
2005-09-08 16:45               ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-08 19:37                 ` Simon Wright
2005-09-08  6:32             ` adaworks
2005-09-08  9:09               ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-08 16:56               ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-09 14:04                 ` Bob Spooner
2005-09-09 16:17                 ` adaworks
2005-09-23 23:04               ` Randy Brukardt
2005-09-14  8:57           ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2005-09-23 23:09           ` Randy Brukardt
2005-09-24 10:49             ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-09-24 20:27             ` Lurker
2005-09-25  0:20             ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-25 17:05             ` adaworks
2005-09-01 11:42   ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-01 13:59     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-01 15:36       ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-01 18:34         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-02 10:43           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-02 13:11             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-02 14:23               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-02 19:48                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-02 17:21           ` Björn Persson
2005-09-01 16:04   ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-01 18:06     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-02 10:42       ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-02 13:20         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-02 14:14           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-02 19:48             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-03 20:01               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-04 10:13                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-05 13:22                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-05 15:50                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-05 18:20                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-05 18:31                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-06  8:20                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-06 11:52                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-06 13:46                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-06 15:51                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-06 21:32                                 ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-07  9:08                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-07 18:20                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-07 19:07                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-07 21:23                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-08 10:27                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-08 11:39                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-08 13:44                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-08 18:18                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-09 10:06                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-09 12:26                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-09 12:29                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-01  8:48 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-01 15:57 ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-01 21:42   ` Gene
2005-09-01 22:56     ` tmoran
2005-09-05 15:53       ` Gene [this message]
2005-09-05 17:47         ` jimmaureenrogers
2005-09-05 22:13           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06  8:24             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-05 19:22         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2005-09-05 21:54           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-05 22:50             ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-09-05 23:46               ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-12  3:59                 ` Dave Thompson
2005-09-06 16:02             ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-06 21:00               ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06  5:38         ` Pascal Obry
2005-09-05 21:48       ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06  5:25         ` tmoran
2005-09-06 14:58           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06  9:26         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-06 15:00           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-07 11:02             ` Thierry Pirot
2005-09-07 20:09               ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06 13:22         ` Bob Spooner
2005-09-06 15:30           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06 16:12             ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-06 21:21               ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-02 20:19     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2005-09-03 12:51     ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2005-09-03 14:08       ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-05  8:34         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-05  9:32           ` Arrays indexed by fixed point types (Was: Surprise in array concatenation) Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-05 11:07             ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-05 15:12               ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2005-09-05 12:14             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-05 13:07               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-05 15:10                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-05 11:29           ` Surprise in array concatenation Dr. Adrian Wrigley
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