Re: No call for Ada (was Re: Announcing new scripting/prototyping

["Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com>]

"Marin David Condic" <nobody@noplace.com> wrote in message
news:407D235B.2040004@noplace.com...
> We could thus conclude that the cause is hopeless. Ada (or any other new
> language without a major backer) can never be widely adopted.

I didn't say *never*. There just is a very high probability of failure (well
over 95%). You're not going to find any investment with that sort of odds.
(And personally, I'm unwilling to undertake something without a substantial
chance of success...)

> The Ada vendors ought to be looking to start marketing C++/Java compilers
or
> other non-Ada products.

Most already do.

> The ARG ought to stop wasting everyone's time with language revisions.

That certainly was seriously argued by major Ada players early on. (Haven't
heard it recently, though.)

> And we should all quit having any interest in
> promoting Ada, quit posting to this group and go find some more
> productive way to spend our time.

I don't know if I'd go as far as that. There is plenty that can be done with
realistic goals (like assuming that Ada will continue to be used for many
years, and will be adopted by some new projects).

But nothing said here is going to have any impact on Ada's future (at least
in a positive sense). Either get out there and take that giant risk, or stop
fantisizing about a world where everyone uses Ada.

> ***OR***
>
> We could conclude that it is an uphill battle, but one that has been won
> in the past. It requires some intelligence, creativity, cooperation by
> the major players, and above all else a *NEW STRATEGY* for how to get
> the language adopted in a more widespread way.

That's the entry fee. Once you've done all of that, you are just in the door
so you can roll the dice. And you have to come up boxcars (two sixes) to
win.

The problem is that if you have a good strategy, there is nothing preventing
the Java folks (say) from copying it. And unless you can execute the
strategy before they do, you have no chance.

...
> The alternative is to give up. If you really feel its that hopeless, why
> bother with *any* effort relating to Ada at all?

In my case, its a combination of factors (these are personal opinions, and
any argument of them is wasted effort for all):

1) Ada is by far the best programming language available. It is the only
language in wide use that gets the syntax right (well, it comes closer than
any alternative), and it gets most of the semantics right, as well. No C or
Lisp family language will ever come within a country mile of Ada here (the
syntaxes are a disaster). If a real contender appeared (obviously with a
syntax similar to Ada's), I'd seriously consider switching.

2) I need to eat, pay the mortgage, etc. And I have to do what I know (which
is Ada). The one time I had to fix a Perl program, I spent two weeks on the
project (only a couple of bugs needed to be fixed). Similarly, the one time
I tried to seriously do web page design was a similar disaster. I don't have
the talent needed for those things.

3) I believe that a programmer that gives/sells programs to others has a
moral obligation to support those programs as long as anyone is using them.
Thus I will not abandon Claw or Janus/Ada even if they are not profitable.
And thus I care about the future of Ada.

In any case, I'm a natural pessimist. I don't see a glass half empty or half
full, I see one that will soon be fully empty via evaporation or spillage.
:-)  Others mileage may vary!

                       Randy.