Re: comp.sw.components & newsgroup voting

[tse@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Tse)]

[followup has been limited to news.groups]

In article <4535@hubcap.UUCP> wtwolfe@hubcap.clemson.edu writes:
>From article <3177@ficc.uu.net>, by jeffd@ficc.uu.net (jeff daiell):
>> Casting a vote in someone's name w/o that individual's permission 
>> is *extremely* unethical --- and startlingly presumptuous.  [...] 
>> Is there a way to preclude such permissionless autovoting on the net?
>
>    Local vn documentation states that if there is general agreement
>    among the users of a mailing list that a newsgroup should be created, 
>    then the mailing list can be counted as a block of YES votes, en masse.  

Uhh... I have a vague memory of you using ``local vn documentation'' 
as justification before.  The answer is now, as it was then, that the 
documentation is meaningful only if reflects the net opinion.  And 
practically everyone's understanding is that mailing list membership 
does not equal yes vote on newsgroup formation.  vn documentation is 
not holy writ.

>    As a practical matter, I have no intention of enduring hate mail from
>    someone who objects violently enough.  Thus, the plan was to distribute
>    a mailing list article saying that we were going for a newsgroup (as if
>    they weren't already going to read the same declarations in comp.lang.ada
>    and comp.software-eng), and to send e-mail if there are violent objections.

I hope you are going to notify news.groups also.  This is probably just 
an oversight.

>    As another practical matter, even if I didn't agree to drop the YES vote
>    of anyone who objected, 

Whoa... You think you have THE CHOICE OF NOT AGREEING TO DROP SOMEONE'S 
INVOLUNTARY YES VOTE?  (Sorry for shouting, but I am shocked and outraged.)
This is the USENET, not <insert favourite dictatorship here>.

>    they could still submit a NO vote and at least
>    neutralize the YES.

How very magnanimous of you.  Do you mean that someone on your mailing
list can at best abstain from the vote (their forced YES vote neutralized
by their voluntary NO vote)?  And they agreed to this?  Wow.  I wonder
what Patrick Henry would say about your vote counting?

>    The comp.sw.components Mailing List is presently 96 members strong,
>    and a grand total of 2 have so far stated that they want to be on
>    the mailing list but would not presently support a newsgroup.  They
>    are more than neutralized by 3 people who voted in favor of the
>    newsgroup but did not want to be on the mailing list. 

Are you collecting votes now?  This has not been properly broadcasted in
news.groups.  If you have not called for a vote, then all the ``votes''
you have been receiving do not count.  If you are indeed collecting votes 
(according to the regulation USENET voting protocol), please tell us.
Many non-mailing list non-comp.lang.ada non-comp.software-engr readers 
might want to vote.

>    Therefore, I think this essentially amounts to a tempest in a teapot, 
>    and I do anticipate that the comp.sw.components newsgroup will become
>    a reality by year-end.

Yeah, I guess I must be overreacting.  What's the right to vote worth 
anyway?  Lord knows, you can't eat it, and you can't sell it.  Heck, it 
even gets in your way when you try to form a newsgroup.


  --Gary Tse, tse@cory.berkeley.edu  or  ..!ucbvax!cory!tse

P.S.  Isn't it annoying when you are trying to discuss a practical issue,
and some kid insists on talking about morality instead?  Maybe we can
punt morality while we are at it.