Multiparadigm Languages : (was Beginners Language)

[raj <israelrt@optushome.com.au>]

Forwarded from  the python mailing list <python-list@python.org>

Bob Calco <rcalco@cortechs.com>
Wow, don't see too many references to Mozart/Oz -- but I agree: It's a
very powerful environment/language (respectively) that was DESIGNED
(versus "evolved") from the ground up to support multiple programming
paradigms, and support them well. It's really quite an incredible
achievement that isn't hard to appreciate once you get over the hump
of its significant learning curve, and some of its
open-source/low-development-budget quirks. It wasn't
built for the "feint of heart"...though its creators are, like Guido
vis a vis Python, quite certain that the world would be a better place
if it was taught as a first programming language. I don't disagree
with them, or Guido either, for that matter. ;)

The language itself (Oz) isn't exactly what I would call "elegant" or
syntactically easy to learn (not compared to Python, anyway) -- or in
any event the elegance of the language isn't something that jumps out
at you right away until you know what you're looking at -- but it
does, as I said, offer tremendous flexibility and power in the right
hands. It lets you fit the solution to the problem domain, instead of
the other way around -- the way most other languages force you to
approach application design, i.e., the way of Procrustes ("we're using
an OOP language, so we'll describe the problem in OOP terms" vs. "this
really is a problem that lends itself to OOP analysis, so we'll use
the OOP aspects of the language for this piece of the application").

(The classic "I have a hammer so everything is a nail" syndrome...with
Mozart, you have a more-or-less complete toolbox and actually have to
pick and choose the right tool for the job. That really is it's
primary value proposition, so far as I'm concerned, especially when
the problem domain is suited to declarative programming (a la Prolog),
which neither Java nor Python nor C/C++ really support. Mozart excels
as a cross platform substitute for Prolog-style languages, ideally
suited for things like intelligent mobile agents and distributed
component-based expert-systems. )

But the fact that it truly does support OOP, and procedural, and
declarative, and GUI (via Tk), and about a half a dozen other
paradigms, and it is completely free and extensible (like Python) in
C, makes it a great one-stop shop kind of language. The difficulty of
mastering the language has less to do with syntax/symantics than it
does getting used to the many different styles of programming it
supports... knowing when to use what paradigm lands you smack dab in
the heart of computer science at the highest altitudes. Not every
programmer likes to climb that dark and dangerous
cliff... most get stuck in some one True Way of doing things, where
everything is "obvious" and there's a large community of folks around
to reinforce that illusion (Java's a perfect example). This is fine
for a technician, but a *real* software engineer in the highest,
grandest, most idealized sense of the term really ought to have
broader horizons, IMHO.

Programming in Mozart is a lot like mountain climbing -- you gotta be
just a little nuts and willing to endure the solitude of obscure and
distant landscapes and breath thinner air to do it, but ah, the sights
you see!

(BTW, I still admire and use Python, don't get me wrong. I'm just very
impressed by Mozart and figured I'd take the occasion to extoll its
many virtues since raj brought it up... )

;)

Check it out at:

http://www.mozart-oz.org

Download and install it,

http://www.mozart-oz.org/download/

then check out some of the interesting online demos:

http://www.mozart-oz.org/documentation/demo/

Sincerely,

Bob Calco

# -----Original Message-----
# From: python-list-admin@python.org
# [mailto:python-list-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of raj
# Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 10:09 PM
# To: python-list@python.org
# Subject: Re: Beginner's Language?
#
#
# Education is different from vocational training.
# Vocational training is for plumbers and those who have to
# start-work-right-now.
# Education is  about understanding the fundamentals and the theory
that
# underlies the subject / the system / the "all".
# Education is meant for those capable of   understanding the
# fundamentals and the theory that underlies the subject / the system
/
# the "all".
#
# In this context, I stand by my previous statements:
# Lisp, Scheme, subsetted Ada, Smalltalk , Ruby , Python (and if
# approached judiciously, even Java and C++) can be used usefully as a
# language of discourse.
#
# Perl while admirable as a tool for sys admins and wannabe-hackers  [
# do you want your child to just become a sys-admin ? :-) ]  is a
# linguistic mishmash  that tries to be all things to all programmers
# and ends up becoming ( again to quote Larry Wall ) a "Pathologically
# Eclectic Rubbish Lister".
#
# If you really want to teach children to use a multiparadigm
language,
# try Oz / Mozart. It is has functional, object oriented, logic and
# constraint based, features and has concurrency built in. Confusing ?
# Yes ! But unlike Perl, Mozart was DESIGNED  and did not grow by a
# process of uglification / accretion.
#
# Accretion is not necessarily bad. Just look at Lisp with it
brilliant
# metaobject protocol, multiple dispatch and CLOS. But to contemplate
# teaching Perl or  Basic to children.........
# Phaugh !
#
# --
# http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#