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From: Maciej Sobczak <see.my.homepage@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: F-22 ADA Programming
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 15:37:14 -0700 (PDT)
Date: 2014-10-30T15:37:14-07:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <07d0ad94-160b-4873-ba1b-403e8c0bc420@googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m2tnoi$j1q$4@speranza.aioe.org>


> It is not about escaping responsibility but come from the other end and try
> to be responsible. People are required to be diligent. Choosing the right
> platforms, languages, techniques etc. are all part of engineering just like
> choosing the right concrete, steel, and designs are are all part of making a
> bridge.

And yet, among hundreds of available materials and components, architects choose those that are most economically viable in the given context, not the ones that have the best known parameters. For every bridge or building I would be able to prove that better materials exist - and they were not chosen for valid reasons. Every single day my life depends on materials that were chosen based on some economic compromises and sometimes that economy argument is passed on us - for example we have to choose what car we will buy to drive our kids to school and that decision also involves economy compromises. I bet that nobody on this group bought the best car that was ever created. Should we feel bad about it?

I am not aware of any engineering industry where purely technical arguments are the only ones that are taken into account. It would be naive to expect that IT should be any different.

> I think that's misleading. It is not only the probability of failures that's
> important but their type and consequences.

That C++ bugs have more severe consequences than Ada bugs? :-)

> The question is whether people acted
> responsibly, cautiously, and in good faith. And those are things that make a
> difference in court.

And I assure you that no programmer in the world selects his tools in bad faith (at least I don't know any such wrongdoers). Everybody can swear on their good intentions. That should solve the court problem, right?

If I understand things correctly, lack of due diligence has to be proven in court. But who is responsible if most programmers are simply *not aware* of better tools? Nowadays the universities teach that the best language for everything is Java. Is the Java programmer liable for the broken system or should we sue his university instead?

-- 
Maciej Sobczak * http://www.inspirel.com

  reply	other threads:[~2014-10-30 22:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 97+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-10-26 18:31 F-22 ADA Programming nathandsash
2014-10-26 19:02 ` Martyn Pike
2014-10-26 21:20 ` David Botton
2014-10-26 23:24   ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-26 23:55     ` David Botton
2014-11-14 22:54       ` rriehle
2014-11-14 23:46         ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2014-11-15  6:43           ` wilson
2014-11-15 17:49             ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-11-15 21:28         ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-16  9:57           ` Jean François Martinez
2014-11-16 22:26             ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-17  0:33               ` Jean François Martinez
2014-10-27  0:13     ` Robert A Duff
2014-10-27  0:31       ` David Botton
2014-10-27 10:17         ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-10-27 10:47           ` J-P. Rosen
2014-10-27 15:06         ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-27 22:32           ` Randy Brukardt
2014-10-27  6:28       ` Pascal Obry
2014-10-27 15:04     ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-27 15:17       ` Björn Lundin
2014-10-27 15:41       ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-10-27 16:01         ` Robert A Duff
2014-10-27 20:16         ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-28  8:45         ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-10-28 11:58           ` Bill White
2014-10-28 14:56             ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-28 19:36               ` Bill White
2014-10-28 18:29           ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-28 18:37             ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-28 19:14               ` David Botton
2014-10-28 21:06               ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-28 21:32                 ` Simon Clubley
2014-10-28 21:37                 ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-28 23:59                   ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-29  0:34                     ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-29  5:24                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-29  8:37                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-10-29 17:20                           ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-29 20:43                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-10-29 20:55                               ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-29 21:40                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-10-30  8:56                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-11-08  4:52                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2014-11-08  8:12                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-10-30 15:38                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-10-30 15:49                               ` Alan Jump
2014-10-30 22:33                                 ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2014-10-30 23:13                                   ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-30 16:07                               ` Bill White
2014-10-30 22:37                                 ` Maciej Sobczak [this message]
2014-10-31  9:41                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-10-31 12:51                                     ` Brad Moore
2014-11-01  3:03                                     ` C versus Ada (once again :-)), was: " Simon Clubley
2014-11-01 13:35                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-11-03  1:54                                         ` Simon Clubley
2014-11-03  9:42                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-11-03 12:07                                           ` Luke A. Guest
2014-11-04  2:01                                             ` Simon Clubley
2014-11-03 14:26                                           ` Brian Drummond
2014-11-01 13:46                                       ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-03  2:01                                         ` Simon Clubley
2014-11-03  9:10                                           ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-03 12:09                                           ` Luke A. Guest
2014-11-03 12:40                                       ` Florian Weimer
2014-11-03 21:58                                         ` Shark8
2014-11-03 22:28                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-11-04 13:42                                           ` Florian Weimer
2014-11-04 15:01                                             ` G.B.
2014-11-04 15:50                                               ` Florian Weimer
2014-10-31 10:11                                   ` Bill White
2014-10-31 12:52                                     ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-02 15:40                                       ` Bill White
2014-11-02 22:23                                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-02 22:52                                           ` Peter Chapin
2014-11-03  1:36                                           ` Simon Clubley
2014-11-03 19:04                                           ` Laurent
2014-10-31 13:24                               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2014-11-08  4:45                 ` Randy Brukardt
2014-11-08 23:43                   ` Shark8
2014-11-09  8:39                     ` Simon Wright
2014-11-09 20:53                       ` Shark8
2014-10-28 19:18             ` Simon Clubley
2014-10-27 16:34       ` David Botton
2014-10-27 16:51         ` brbarkstrom
2014-10-27 18:03           ` G.B.
2014-10-27 22:06             ` Simon Wright
2014-10-28  9:40               ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-10-27 20:06         ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-27 20:21           ` David Botton
2014-10-28 11:34       ` tonyg
2014-10-27 17:01     ` Pascal Obry
2014-10-27  4:53 ` Jerry Petrey
2014-10-29  1:49   ` F-35 (was:F-22 ADA Programming) Robert Love
2014-10-30  9:01     ` Frédéric Praca
2014-10-30  9:07       ` Frédéric Praca
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