ROBERT DEWER, Chill out...

ROBERT DEWER, Chill out...

[Scott Barrish]

Mr. Dewer,

Is there something I did to you that I deserve this attitude?  I wish in
the future that you not respond to any of my news postings or e-mails. 
Consider this our last communications.

Thank you ahead of time for your cooperation.

Sincerely,


Scott B.


> From: Robert Dewar <dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu>
> To: TeufelHunde@worldnet.att.net

>what is *this* newsgroup. People have been doing outrageous cross-postings
>recently.

>then you need to get your software under control!

> please figure out how to avoid posting multiple messages, you posted
three
> copies of this request to CLA!

Re: ROBERT DEWER, Chill out...

[Charles F Hankel]

Scott

It's nothing you did.  It's Professor Dewar's attitude.  It seems that
he considers this newsgroup to be his personal fiefdom and if someone
does something that gets in his way, his habit is to send them rude,
pompous e-mails (please note the plural).

When you point out to this arrogant, conceited pillock that you don't
appreciate unsolicited e-mails and will happily take the argument
further, he then sends another stream of personal insults, finishing
with an announcement that he has put you on his mailer rejection list.

This displays the same attitude as the school bully who starts beating
up the new kid and then runs away when that kid fights back.  He is
obviously a weak individual with serious character flaws.

In the light of our own short correspondence, you may understand that
I don't take kindly to his behaviour.  This time he has picked on the
wrong guy at this end.  This Eagle ain't stopped Screaming.

I do wonder if his behaviour is reflective of the entire CS faculty at
NYU and is exactly what the university authorities look for in their
staff.

Sincerely
Charles

On 14 Jan 1998 22:57:56 GMT, "Scott Barrish"
<TeufelHunde@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> Mr. Dewer,
> 
> Is there something I did to you that I deserve this attitude?  I wish in
> the future that you not respond to any of my news postings or e-mails. 
> Consider this our last communications.
> 
> Thank you ahead of time for your cooperation.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> Scott B.
> 
> 
> > From: Robert Dewar <dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu>
> > To: TeufelHunde@worldnet.att.net
> 
> >what is *this* newsgroup. People have been doing outrageous cross-postings
> >recently.
> 
> >then you need to get your software under control!
> 
> > please figure out how to avoid posting multiple messages, you posted
> three
> > copies of this request to CLA!
> 

Re: ROBERT DEWER, Chill out...

[Robert Dewar]

<<It's nothing you did.  It's Professor Dewar's attitude.  It seems that
he considers this newsgroup to be his personal fiefdom and if someone
does something that gets in his way, his habit is to send them rude,
pompous e-mails (please note the plural). >>

Just so people know, I have indeed been sending emails to people who have
almost certainly been cross-posting on the troll posts to CLA without
realizing it. 99% of the time I get a polite reply saying something
like "oops, sorry, I did not realize this was cross-posted", but I
guess Charles is in the 1% (he also did not realize he was cross-posting,
but takes the attitude that he is entitled to, which is of course true,
anyone can say anything).

Actually I am quite surprised that so many people react positively to
such messages, and it definitely helps keep accidental noise down. You
can't tell people what do do, and you will always get some noisy minority
who wlil post no matter what, but it helps quite a bit if the reasonable
majority takes a little bit more care not to accidentally post.

These cross-posted trolls come and go of course, but it sure seems like
CLA has been beset with them recently, and once again the noise-to-signal
ratio is getting a bit high.

(I guess Charles is a bit frustrated, he threatened to complain to me
to my employers at Ada Core Technologies :-) :-)

Well at least we get some signal, I am happy to finally get at least
ONE reply (from Stephe) on how to handle that interesting error message

<<When you point out to this arrogant, conceited pillock that you don't
appreciate unsolicited e-mails and will happily take the argument
further, he then sends another stream of personal insults, finishing
with an announcement that he has put you on his mailer rejection list.>>

P.S. If anyone wants to know how to get on my mailer rejection list, it's
an easy algorithm (in fact I could probably automate it!) If I get a message
with obsenities or rude language, then you go on the list. It is not that
this offends me, it is just that I take this as a signal that the 
probability of further intelligent discussion has dropped to zero :-)

An entertaining thread title (should be DEWAR of course, but I don't
want to disturb those who want to use their thread following mailers
to follow this thread :-)

Re: ROBERT DEWER, Chill out...

[Thornton]

Robert,
There's no doubt you're highly educated & intelligent in regards to the
topics discussed on this newsgroups, but I second the motion that you're
also quite rude.

Robert Dewar wrote:
>
> <<It's nothing you did.  It's Professor Dewar's attitude.  It seems that
> he considers this newsgroup to be his personal fiefdom and if someone
> does something that gets in his way, his habit is to send them rude,
> pompous e-mails (please note the plural). >>
>
> Just so people know, I have indeed been sending emails to people who have
> almost certainly been cross-posting on the troll posts to CLA without
> realizing it. 99% of the time I get a polite reply saying something
> like "oops, sorry, I did not realize this was cross-posted", but I
> guess Charles is in the 1% (he also did not realize he was cross-posting,
> but takes the attitude that he is entitled to, which is of course true,
> anyone can say anything).
>
> Actually I am quite surprised that so many people react positively to
> such messages, and it definitely helps keep accidental noise down. You
> can't tell people what do do, and you will always get some noisy minority
> who wlil post no matter what, but it helps quite a bit if the reasonable
> majority takes a little bit more care not to accidentally post.
>
> These cross-posted trolls come and go of course, but it sure seems like
> CLA has been beset with them recently, and once again the noise-to-signal
> ratio is getting a bit high.
>
> (I guess Charles is a bit frustrated, he threatened to complain to me
> to my employers at Ada Core Technologies :-) :-)
>
> Well at least we get some signal, I am happy to finally get at least
> ONE reply (from Stephe) on how to handle that interesting error message
>
> <<When you point out to this arrogant, conceited pillock that you don't
> appreciate unsolicited e-mails and will happily take the argument
> further, he then sends another stream of personal insults, finishing
> with an announcement that he has put you on his mailer rejection list.>>
>
> P.S. If anyone wants to know how to get on my mailer rejection list, it's
> an easy algorithm (in fact I could probably automate it!) If I get a message
> with obsenities or rude language, then you go on the list. It is not that
> this offends me, it is just that I take this as a signal that the
> probability of further intelligent discussion has dropped to zero :-)
>
> An entertaining thread title (should be DEWAR of course, but I don't
> want to disturb those who want to use their thread following mailers
> to follow this thread :-)

--
       .---.        .-----------
      /     \  __  /    ------
     / /     \(  )/    -----
    //////   ' \/ `   ---
   //// / // :    : ---
  // /   /  /`    '--
 //          //..\\
        ----UU----UU-----
            '//||\\`
"Mind is the Master power that moulds and makes,
 And Man is Mind, and evermore he takes
 The tool of Thought, and, shaping what he wills,
 Brings forth a thousand joys, a thousand ills;-
 He thinks in secret, and it comes to pass:
 Environment is but his looking-glass."

Re: ROBERT DEWER, Chill out...

[Adam Donahue]

I have to jump in and say that, knowing Robert Dewar personally (he is a professor
of mine), what might appear as "rudeness" in e-mail is merely matter-of-factness.
Just because he doesn't happen to dot every sentence with a string of smilies does
not mean he's on the rampage.  It's all about tone people;  tone is not conveyed well
via ASCII!  (Was I yelling just then, or just making a point?  See what I mean?)  I
have only known the man to be most polite and good-humored in person, and I highly
doubt he makes a sudden transformation when reading e-mail!  :-)

Adam

Thornton (thornton@AVICOM.NET) wrote:
: Robert,
: There's no doubt you're highly educated & intelligent in regards to the
: topics discussed on this newsgroups, but I second the motion that you're
: also quite rude.
: 
: Robert Dewar wrote:
: >
: > <<It's nothing you did.  It's Professor Dewar's attitude.  It seems that
: > he considers this newsgroup to be his personal fiefdom and if someone
: > does something that gets in his way, his habit is to send them rude,
: > pompous e-mails (please note the plural). >>
: >
: > Just so people know, I have indeed been sending emails to people who have
: > almost certainly been cross-posting on the troll posts to CLA without
: > realizing it. 99% of the time I get a polite reply saying something
: > like "oops, sorry, I did not realize this was cross-posted", but I
: > guess Charles is in the 1% (he also did not realize he was cross-posting,
: > but takes the attitude that he is entitled to, which is of course true,
: > anyone can say anything).
: >
: > Actually I am quite surprised that so many people react positively to
: > such messages, and it definitely helps keep accidental noise down. You
: > can't tell people what do do, and you will always get some noisy minority
: > who wlil post no matter what, but it helps quite a bit if the reasonable
: > majority takes a little bit more care not to accidentally post.
: >
: > These cross-posted trolls come and go of course, but it sure seems like
: > CLA has been beset with them recently, and once again the noise-to-signal
: > ratio is getting a bit high.
: >
: > (I guess Charles is a bit frustrated, he threatened to complain to me
: > to my employers at Ada Core Technologies :-) :-)
: >
: > Well at least we get some signal, I am happy to finally get at least
: > ONE reply (from Stephe) on how to handle that interesting error message
: >
: > <<When you point out to this arrogant, conceited pillock that you don't
: > appreciate unsolicited e-mails and will happily take the argument
: > further, he then sends another stream of personal insults, finishing
: > with an announcement that he has put you on his mailer rejection list.>>
: >
: > P.S. If anyone wants to know how to get on my mailer rejection list, it's
: > an easy algorithm (in fact I could probably automate it!) If I get a message
: > with obsenities or rude language, then you go on the list. It is not that
: > this offends me, it is just that I take this as a signal that the
: > probability of further intelligent discussion has dropped to zero :-)
: >
: > An entertaining thread title (should be DEWAR of course, but I don't
: > want to disturb those who want to use their thread following mailers
: > to follow this thread :-)
: 
: --
:        .---.        .-----------
:       /     \  __  /    ------
:      / /     \(  )/    -----
:     //////   ' \/ `   ---
:    //// / // :    : ---
:   // /   /  /`    '--
:  //          //..\\
:         ----UU----UU-----
:             '//||\\`
: "Mind is the Master power that moulds and makes,
:  And Man is Mind, and evermore he takes
:  The tool of Thought, and, shaping what he wills,
:  Brings forth a thousand joys, a thousand ills;-
:  He thinks in secret, and it comes to pass:
:  Environment is but his looking-glass."

-- 



Adam Donahue / mailto:adam@cyber-guru.com

Re: ROBERT DEWER, Chill out...

[Nick Roberts]

Ah but no!  When Dr Dewar gets behind that keyboard, a hideous
transformation takes place: the normally placid doctor becomes a MONSTER!!!
 R. L. Stevenson wrote a book about him, in fact.

We love you really RD xxxxx ;-)

-- 

Nick Roberts
Croydon, UK

Proprietor, ThoughtWing Software; Independent Software Development
Consultant
* Nick.Roberts@dial.pipex.com * Voicemail & Fax +44 181-405 1124 *
*** Always game for a verbal joust (usually as the turkey) ***


Adam Donahue <donahue@acf2.nyu.edu> wrote in article
<6aajie$4v6$1@news.nyu.edu>...
> I have to jump in and say that, knowing Robert Dewar personally (he is a
professor
> of mine), what might appear as "rudeness" in e-mail is merely
matter-of-factness.
> Just because he doesn't happen to dot every sentence with a string of
smilies does
> not mean he's on the rampage.  It's all about tone people;  tone is not
conveyed well
> via ASCII!  (Was I yelling just then, or just making a point?  See what I
mean?)  I
> have only known the man to be most polite and good-humored in person, and
I highly
> doubt he makes a sudden transformation when reading e-mail!  :-)

Re: ROBERT DEWER, Chill out...

[Paul Van Bellinghen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 732 bytes --]



Thornton wrote:

> Robert,
> There's no doubt you're highly educated & intelligent in regards to the
> topics discussed on this newsgroups, but I second the motion that you're
> also quite rude.
>

It's a New York thing. What may be construed as rude is probably just a typical
crass New York way of speaking to people.  New Yorkers tend to just say what
they're thinking without paying attention to how it's received. I guess I'm used
to it. I grew up on Long Island and have been working in Yonkers for the last 15
years. In fact I graduated from NYU when they had the School of Engineering in the
Bronx. You should spend some time in Israel. These people take rudeness to a new
height. But again, its just part of the culture.

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Re: ROBERT DEWER, Chill out...

[Scott Barrish]

FYI, I do live in the New York City area and I was the original poster of
this thread.  Just because someone lives in a certain part of the world
does not excuse them for their rudeness.  I can see if Dr. Dewar was
enthralled in a newsgroup argument where such a behavior would arise, but
this was a first response to a posting at CLA.  Therefore the rudeness that
was received by me was not neccessary.  I still have not gotten an apology
from Dr. Dewar.

Sincerely,

Scott B.

Re: ROBERT DEWER, Chill out...

[James Hopper]

In article <34C88745.CEDE4773@avicom.net>
Thornton <thornton@AVICOM.NET> writes:

> There's no doubt you're highly educated & intelligent in regards to the
> topics discussed on this newsgroups, but I second the motion that you're
> also quite rude.

I will also jump to roberts defense also.  I have worked with Robert a
bit the last few years and i have several times taken offense a bit at
things he said over email or on cla.  But i am a bit more direct, in
that i always privately ask him if my perception of the event is what
he really intended (well i wasnt ALWAYS that polite about it). he
always seemed taken quite aback that i had taken it that way, and has
always been good to help me understand that he was not being
disrespectful of me or rude.  I have come to understand roberts way of
doing email, and have benefited a great deal from the association since
i got over letting my feelings be mussed by MY perception of his tone.

jim