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From: "Dann Corbit" <dcorbit@solutionsiq.com>
Subject: Re: Software Engineering and Dreamers
Date: 1997/05/27
Date: 1997-05-27T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <01bc6ae2$e4dd6900$cb61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: JSA.97May27162239@alexandria


[relevant discussion about technology snipped]
I agree with Kaz from one standpoint [in software engineering being
separate from other engineering disciplines].  In electrical engineering
(for instance) we have measured, known tolerances and capacities for the
devices we use.  Consider a resistor of 150 ohms with a 5% tolerance.  We
know how it behaves and what the accuracy is.  We also know what the
failure rate is for a given brand. We know how much power will definitely
cause it to fail.  When we build a circuit board from the design
specification we know how the circuit behaves and what its failure rate is,
for the entire board, for each component and for all acceptable inputs [we
also should know what those are].  In software engineering, we have not
progressed very far beyond the schematic.  We do not know how the circuit
performs for all possible inputs.  With complex IC's, we may not always
validate every input [as the Intel 80 bit float an the infamous divide bug
shows] but even in those cases testing is [or should be] done which
explains the inputs and outputs from a probability basis.

Consider some examples:
1.  Booch components (Ada)
2.  C Standard Library (C)
3.  STL (C++)

for an object in one of the above repositories, do we know how it will
behave for all inputs?  Do we know how it will behave, at least as far as a
probability basis?  If we should happen to know for some component, how is
this documented?  We can't pick up the spec sheet like we would for an IC
and see what the permissible voltages are and what the performance curve is
like and what probability of failure is.  When a component fails [e.g.
given an address outside of the user's allowed bounds] how does the
component behave?  Are failure modes uniform or even documented?

Tested components tend to be stamped "PASS/FAIL" and as new problems arise
are corrected.  This reactionary approach to software design can hardly be
termed 'engineering'.

I suggest that software could become an engineering discipline by formation
of a database of components, performance, accuracies and tolerances.  This
database would contain the component, the test driver, and definitions for
which environment it was tested under.  This database does not exist right
now.
-- 
Anonymous ftp sites for C-FAQ:
ftp://ftp.eskimo.com ftp://rtfm.mit.edu ftp://ftp.uu.net
Hypertext C-FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
C-FAQ Book: ISBN 0-201-84519-9.
Looking for something?  Software?  Algorithms?  Publications?
http://www.altavista.digital.com or http://www.infoseek.com





  reply	other threads:[~1997-05-27  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 195+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-05-15  0:00 Any research putting c above ada? Jon S Anthony
1997-05-15  0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-15  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]   ` <01bc6189$b074f500$LocalHost@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>
1997-05-16  0:00     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-18  0:00         ` Nick Roberts
1997-05-19  0:00           ` NOT about "c above ada" W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-19  0:00         ` Any research putting c above ada? Michael Norrish
1997-05-20  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00             ` Michael Norrish
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-21  0:00                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-21  0:00                 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-22  0:00                 ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-22  0:00                   ` Software Engineering and Dreamers Nick Roberts
1997-05-22  0:00                     ` Tom Moran
1997-05-25  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-26  0:00                         ` David Ray
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` Mark Allen Framness
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` Mark Allen Framness
1997-05-23  0:00                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-23  0:00                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` jason hummel
1997-05-25  0:00                         ` Craig Franck
1997-05-26  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` Craig Franck
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28  0:00                               ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-29  0:00                                 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-29  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Dann Corbit [this message]
1997-05-26  0:00                         ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-26  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` tstcroix
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-31  0:00                                   ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-02  0:00                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-09  0:00                                   ` Ralph Silverman
1997-05-27  0:00                             ` system
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28  0:00                                 ` Rich Miller
1997-05-28  0:00                                   ` Bryce Bardin
1997-05-28  0:00                                     ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-05-29  0:00                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-05-29  0:00                                       ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-05-28  0:00                                     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-27  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-28  0:00                               ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-28  0:00                             ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-29  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-29  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-30  0:00                             ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-05-30  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-02  0:00                                 ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-07  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-02  0:00                                 ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` John Winters
1997-06-02  0:00                                     ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03  0:00                                       ` Martin C. Carlisle
1997-06-08  0:00                                         ` Joe Charlier
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-17  0:00                                           ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-04  0:00                                       ` John Winters
1997-06-06  0:00                                       ` Volker Hetzer
1997-06-06  0:00                                         ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-08  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-09  0:00                                             ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-06-09  0:00                                               ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-11  0:00                                                 ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-06-11  0:00                                                   ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-11  0:00                                                 ` Crocodiles [was: Re: Software Engineering and Dreamers] Anonymous
1997-06-11  0:00                                                   ` Off topic: Crocodiles Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-11  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-11  0:00                                                       ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-12  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-11  0:00                                                   ` Crocodiles [was: Re: Software Engineering and Dreamers] Spam Hater
1997-06-12  0:00                                                     ` Anonymous
1997-06-17  0:00                                               ` Software Engineering and Dreamers Nick Roberts
1997-06-09  0:00                                             ` Craig Franck
1997-06-08  0:00                                               ` Jason Shankel
1997-06-09  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-08  0:00                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-06-09  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-09  0:00                                                   ` SE, Dreamers, and on and on and on W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-09  0:00                                                   ` Software Engineering and Dreamers John G. Volan
1997-06-10  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                         ` <19970606.49CA70..12B91@ae124.du.pipex.com>
1997-06-07  0:00                                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-06-09  0:00                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-10  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-10  0:00                                                 ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-07  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-08  0:00                                         ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03  0:00                                     ` Ed Prochak - Woodland Consultants
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-06-03  0:00                                     ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` Craig Franck
1997-06-02  0:00                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-02  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                 ` <01bc7042$609289e0$cb61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` Off topic response to an off topic message--> was:Re: " H. Blakely Williford
1997-06-04  0:00                                     ` Craig Franck
1997-06-03  0:00                                       ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Ceri Stagg
1997-06-12  0:00                                           ` Philip Brashear
1997-07-21  0:00                                             ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-10  0:00                                       ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-06-04  0:00                                   ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-06-04  0:00                                     ` �Stephen!
1997-06-05  0:00                                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-06  0:00                                         ` Volker Hetzer
     [not found]                                     ` <01bc7a5b$9ccdd900$21320f9b@mindlin>
     [not found]                                       ` <5o7ahj$oos$1@news12.gte.net>
1997-06-18  0:00                                         ` Philip Hindman
1997-06-18  0:00                                         ` Spam Hater
1997-06-18  0:00                                           ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-19  0:00                                             ` Stephan Wilms
1997-06-20  0:00                                             ` Spam Hater
1997-06-19  0:00                                           ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-19  0:00                                         ` Craig Franck
1997-06-18  0:00                                           ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-19  0:00                                             ` Steve Howard
1997-06-19  0:00                                               ` Anonymous
1997-06-20  0:00                                             ` Spam Hater
1997-06-21  0:00                                               ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-23  0:00                                               ` root
1997-06-22  0:00                                             ` Alicia Carla Longstreet
1997-06-19  0:00                                           ` Stephan Wilms
1997-06-24  0:00                                           ` David Thornley
1997-06-06  0:00                                 ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-06-06  0:00                                   ` Joe Charlier
1997-06-04  0:00                             ` S. Norby
1997-05-30  0:00                         ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-05-24  0:00                     ` Bill Anderson
1997-05-23  0:00                   ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) Jeff Carter
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` William M.Gordon
1997-05-23  0:00                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-23  0:00                         ` John Bode
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Craig Franck
1997-05-26  0:00                           ` Software Engineering is not a hoax Laurent Gasser
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-27  0:00                             ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Dan Evens
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-29  0:00                                 ` Dean Runzel
1997-05-29  0:00                                   ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-29  0:00                                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-30  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-30  0:00                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-05-30  0:00                                   ` Lord Shaman
1997-05-28  0:00                             ` Alan Bowler
1997-05-29  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-23  0:00                         ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-24  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-12  0:00                         ` Software Engineering is not a hoax Keith Shillington
1997-06-12  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-17  0:00                           ` brucemo
1997-06-17  0:00                             ` Richard Turner
1997-06-17  0:00                               ` Spam Hater
1997-06-17  0:00                                 ` Richard Turner
1997-06-12  0:00                   ` Ralph Silverman
     [not found]                   ` <33859489.7FB8@spam.inno <5nplh1$276@nntp.seflin.org>
1997-06-13  0:00                     ` Michael Tippach
1997-06-13  0:00                     ` Paul Mesken
1997-05-20  0:00             ` Any research putting c above ada? Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00   ` Les Hazlewood
1997-05-20  0:00     ` Newsthread integrity Nick Roberts
1997-05-20  0:00     ` Any research putting c above ada? Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-21  0:00       ` Stephan Wilms
1997-05-21  0:00         ` Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-16  0:00 ` T Wheeley
1997-05-16  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-05-26  0:00 Software Engineering and Dreamers tmoran
1997-05-26  0:00 tmoran
1997-05-27  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-05-28  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-05-29  0:00 Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-30  0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-30  0:00   ` system
1997-05-31  0:00     ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-31  0:00     ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-06-02  0:00       ` Philip Brashear
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