Ada95: The Real Job Market and College Life

Ada95: The Real Job Market and College Life

[Kenneth Mays]

Greetings,

I know I cast my opinions a bit much, but today was another slap in 
the face. Two local colleges local colleges were teaching Ada courses 
so I thought I'd pop over there to see what books they were using. 
Not to bad mouth the colleges, but they were STILL using books 
written in 1993 - and the compilers weren't Ada95 compilers. So, here 
is a note.

What do the jobs expect from graduating students? Many jobs prefer 
you know Ada (if Ada95 then great, but Ada83 is still used by many 
companies). Just
know the concepts, design, and theory of use. Think of the same concept
as C and C++. You don't have to know C to learn C++, but it does help to
know C in the real world when you have to maintain C programs. COBOL 
is taught in some schools even though COBOL-2 is dominating the DB/2 
and CICS enviroment. Should we learn the original concepts of C, 
COBOL, Ada83, and other languages to understand the advanced versions 
of them?

Ada95 is has many advancements which make Ada95 a great langauge to 
learn over Ada83.The problem is are we teaching our professors, 
colleges, universities, and even high school students about Ada95. 
for those you are reading this message, are your jobs providing you a 
paid "on-the-job"
training program (Learning Tree?) or are you buying books from the bookstore
to gain an edge in the marketplace? Even though we cover technical issues
in comp.sys.ada, I wonder how many people REALLY went to a professional
seminar or college course that taught Ada95 or an advanced course in Ada95.
Or are we just shooting horses until the validation is complete around
1997/1998 before we push Ada95 compilers and books into the hands of 
the innocent? (IMNSHO) Being an Ada83 guru doesn't automatically make 
you a
Ada95 guru - everyone needs training wheels at sometime in their life.

Ken L. Mays, MIS
USAF - Eglin AFB, FL
http://www.wg53.eglin.af.mil (webmaster)

Re: Ada95: The Real Job Market and College Life

[Robert Dewar]

T.E.D. says

"As a (proud?) holder of a B.S. degree in computer science from a
CSAB-accredited program, I can tell you I am a TINY minority among
my co-workers. So apparently we don't even expect a CS degree from
a graduating student!"

I am not sure if you are placing the emphasis on the CS degree or
the C
CSAB accreditation (many large schools do not bother with this or
other similar special purpose accreditation).

If CSAB, then sure, I would expect that. If the CS degree that is
changing. Certainly the financial industry in NYC expects CS degress
from all its new hires.

Re: Ada95: The Real Job Market and College Life

[Brian Hauer]

KMays@msn.com (Kenneth Mays) wrote:

> I wonder how many people REALLY went to a professional seminar or
> college course that taught Ada95 or an advanced course in Ada95.
> Or are we just shooting horses until the validation is complete around
> 1997/1998 before we push Ada95 compilers and books into the hands of 
> the innocent? (IMNSHO) Being an Ada83 guru doesn't automatically make 
> you a Ada95 guru - everyone needs training wheels at sometime in their
> life.

Loyola Marymount University (Los Angeles, CA) is now instructing Ada95
in its CS courses.  I believe the change was implemented just this
semester as GNAT v3 is generally available on every platform used by
the students--myself included.

I have been very impressed with my university's use and instruction of
relatively modern technology.

Regarding Ada95, I have the following question to pose of everyone who
takes a highly philosophical stance on language construction.  It
involves Ada tasking, a subject we are currently discussing in the
course I am enrolled in.  I asked the professor this very question but
he was too hurried by the material to answer fully:

What is the rationale for a client task's limitation of either timed
entry calling or conditional entry calling?  That is,

select
  task_1.entry;
or delay 10.0;
  ...
end select;

Re: Ada95: The Real Job Market and College Life

[Theodore E. Dennison]

Kenneth Mays wrote:
> 
> I know I cast my opinions a bit much, but today was another slap in
> the face. Two local colleges local colleges were teaching Ada courses
> so I thought I'd pop over there to see what books they were using.
> Not to bad mouth the colleges, but they were STILL using books
> written in 1993 - and the compilers weren't Ada95 compilers. So, here
> is a note.

Speaking as someone taking a college course using a 6-month old book,
I'm quite happy to hear this. Using a brand-spanking new book in a
course is about as much fun as using version 1.0 of a commercial
software release. Two to three years old sounds about right.


> What do the jobs expect from graduating students? Many jobs prefer
> you know Ada (if Ada95 then great, but Ada83 is still used by many
> companies). Just

As a (proud?) holder of a B.S. degree in computer science from a
CSAB-accredited program, I can tell you I am a TINY minority among
my co-workers. So apparently we don't even expect a CS degree from 
a graduating student!

-- 
T.E.D.          
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Re: Ada95: The Real Job Market and College Life

[Theodore E. Dennison]

Robert Dewar wrote:
> 
> T.E.D. says
> 
> "As a (proud?) holder of a B.S. degree in computer science from a
> CSAB-accredited program, I can tell you I am a TINY minority among
> my co-workers. So apparently we don't even expect a CS degree from
> a graduating student!"
> 
> If CSAB, then sure, I would expect that. If the CS degree that is
> changing. Certainly the financial industry in NYC expects CS degress
> from all its new hires.

Well, you removed much of the context. All I'm saying is it is 
silly to argue that the lack of this-that-or-the-other in computer
science curricula is somehow damaging an industry that is by-and-large
NOT populated by CS graduates, or that lack of instruction in language X
will somehow make a CS grad unemployable, when that grad is competing
against EE and Math grads.


-- 
T.E.D.          
                |  Work - mailto:dennison@escmail.orl.mmc.com  |
                |  Home - mailto:dennison@iag.net              |
                |  URL  - http://www.iag.net/~dennison         |

Re: Ada95: The Real Job Market and College Life

[waltersr]

W H A T  D O E S  T H I S  H A V E  T O  D O  W I T H  A D A! 
On Apr 10, 1996 15:13:17 in article <Re: Ada95: The Real Job Market and
College Life>, 'dewar@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar)' wrote: 
 
 
>T.E.D. says 
> 
>"As a (proud?) holder of a B.S. degree in computer science from a 
>CSAB-accredited program, I can tell you I am a TINY minority among 
>my co-workers. So apparently we don't even expect a CS degree from 
>a graduating student!" 
> 
>I am not sure if you are placing the emphasis on the CS degree or 
>the C 
>CSAB accreditation (many large schools do not bother with this or 
>other similar special purpose accreditation). 
> 
>If CSAB, then sure, I would expect that. If the CS degree that is 
>changing. Certainly the financial industry in NYC expects CS degress 
>from all its new hires. 
> 
-- 
Walter B. Hollman Sr