Re: Ada as a first language

["Brian" <phaedrusalt@hotmail.com>]

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"Jacob Sparre Andersen" wrote
> I _have_ considered the scope, size and complexity of the problem
> space Chris was kind enough to describe.  Given that information, my
> experience with teaching people software engineering, my own
> programming experience, and my experience with hobbyist scale
> robotics, I stand firmly by my disagreement with your advice.

You could_not_have_considered the scope, size and complexity of the problem 
space that Chris was kind enough to describe, as he was not kind enough to 
describe them at that time.

>> So, you truly believe that Ada is a better language, no matter what
>> he is trying to achieve?
>
> I never claimed that.

Yet, with no data of any kind other than his words ("robotics embedded 
systems"), you chose to disagree and recommend Ada over other languages 
without consideration of any requirements, whatsoever.

>
>> For any size project?
>
> I expect that the benefits grow with project size.  But given the
> constraints I considered, yes!

What constraints did you consider?  Again, the only words he used to 
describe his project were those mentioned above, and he did mention that he 
did not have programming experience.  The project could have been anything 
from a garage door to R2-D2.

>
>> It isn't the perfect tool for every situation, embedded or not.  And
>> we should stop saying that it is, the language and it's proponents
>> are losing credibility.
>
> I never claimed that Ada is the perfect tool for every situation.
> Stop #�%&!" putting words in my mouth!

Again, you disagreed and recommended Ada for a project that you knew nothing 
about, other than it is an embedded robotic project.  It could have been 
anything, from 5 to 5,000,000 SLOC.  You recommended it over any other 
language, with nearly no data, for a user who admitted to having no 
experience.

I have not put words in your mouth.  I've tried to carefully read your 
disagreements, and weigh their possible effect on a new coder.  His 
experience in the next few months is likely to color his view of programming 
for a long time.  If he has a negative experience because he was enticed to 
use Ada when it wasn't appropriate to his experience level, and for the 
project he has selected, then he may go around saying bad things about Ada. 
That has happened with many companies and individuals before, and the Ada 
world continues to be impacted.  In that light, I've tried to recommend 
tools to him that will allow him to achieve success earlier, and easier. 
Let him move into Ada when it's appropriate, and he is more likely to have a 
more experience overall.  That would be best for him, and for us.

Brian Salter