From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,60e2922351e0e780 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-11-19 09:43:02 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!elnk-pas-nf1!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Warren W. Gay VE3WWG" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Re-Marketing Ada (was "With and use") References: <3FB0B57D.6070906@noplace.com> <3FB22125.1040807@noplace.com> <3FB3751D.5090809@noplace.com> <3FB8B9BC.5040505@noplace.com> <3FBA1118.4060105@noplace.com> <0fxub.48425$bQ3.12107@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <3FBB6527.4040702@noplace.com> In-Reply-To: <3FBB6527.4040702@noplace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:28:33 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.96.223.163 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1069262877 198.96.223.163 (Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:27:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:27:57 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:2683 Date: 2003-11-19T12:28:33-05:00 List-Id: Marin David Condic wrote: > They have a tool for that. Its called a "Programmer". ;-) > > Being able to bind to C/C++ libraries is nice and Ada can do that. > Getting an automated tool isn't a bad thing, but I don't think that > really makes Ada significantly more attractive. Ultimately, the user is > still looking at the situation and asking why he has to use *two* > languages instead of just one. You *never* get out of "catch up" mode > and you're *never* offering something "unique" and "innovative" - just > copying what someone else has done. I have never had a problem with multi language projects. This only becomes a problem when impedance mismatches occur on interfaces and objects, in my experience. > Ultimately, what Ada needs is to have the same sort of libraries that > C/C++ does but written directly in Ada and in Ada style. Don't duplicate > - innovate. Nobody questions this ideal. But the practical question in my mind is how do we provide a way to get closer to the ideal, to make Ada more attractive. If all I had to do was add a Makefile command: adagen freds_fft.h to generate a thin binding, in a consistent and portable way, then I'd have mighty little resistance to using Ada in a given project. The tough sell is when you have to report to management that it will add 3 weeks of work to build a binding to Fred's FFT routine, in order to use Ada. Project management will then ask, "can it be done in C/C++?" As soon as you answer affirmative to this, in the GP (non-embedded, non safety critical) world, the project management answer will be to use C/C++ instead. Bye bye Ada! If instead, you don't have to add those 3 weeks to the project schedule, project management might even encourage the use of Ada, if it even cares. Alternatively, you might not even have to bring it up ;-) For Open Source developers, I think this can make a difference too. Everyone has a limited free time, unless you have just won the lottery (but then would you still be coding? ;-) -- Warren W. Gay VE3WWG http://home.cogeco.ca/~ve3wwg