Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?

[Markus E Leypold <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVETHIS@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de>]

Ludovic Brenta <ludovic@ludovic-brenta.org> writes:

> Markus E Leypold writes:
>> "Jeffrey R. Carter" writes:
>>
>>> Alexander E. Kopilovich wrote:
>>>> The original statement (from kevin cline) was:
>>>>
>>>>>>>  What makes a programmer
>>>>>>> like a new language?  Usually, someone comes along and says something
>>>>>>> like "Remember that program that we spent two weeks writing in C?
>>>>>>> Here's a Perl implementation that I put together in three hours and
>>>>>>> one-tenth the code."  That's never happened with Ada.
>>>> The article
>>>> http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2000/08/mccormick.html
>>>> presents the case where use of Ada language in very specific circumstances
>>>> was much more effective than use of C language in the same circumstances.
>>>
>>> The circumstances differed in this respect: The C students were given
>>> 60% of the teacher's solution. Initially, the Ada students were given
>>> 10% (or maybe less).
>>
>> So it was not really a comparable situation. One might argue that
>> already given partial solutions demotivate and that they have dangers
>> of its own (often draw people on a wrong path of thinking). I've
>> actually seen people given a partial solution perfoming worse than
>> those who had to do without.
>
> In the first years of the course, students started with 0% of the code
> given to them, and the instructor started giving them parts of the
> solution, gradually increasing to 60% over the years, only because all
> students failed to complete the assignment.  So, your argument about
> motivation does not hold.

OK. This was not intended as an argument really (I didn't read the
paper) but rather as food for thought. I've seen beginners playing GO
(a board game) worse when they got more tokens head start (which is
supposes to help beginners and level the playing field with a more
advanced partner). My theory was that this is because they do not know
how to use the advance tokens properly and get side tracked into a
less than optimal game. Suggestion was, that the same might have
applied here to a ceratin degree: Given parts of the solution might
keep people from finding their own and tied up in efforts to fit their
probably different approach to the pieces they got.

Again: I do not seriously put that forward as an argument in the given
study, since I haven't read it. But my experiance is, that help is not
always helping, so that should be well controlled factor in a study
and arguments of the kind "they got helped more and did come less far"
are flawed as a general approach because the help could have been well
the factor hindering them.

>
>> Mind you, I do not suggest that really is the reason for the
>> differences found (I haven't even read the study yet), but I see a
>> problem with a study where the 2 groups compared are not really
>> starting from the same point. The only different factor should be the
>> programming language, not the rest of the setup.

> After you read the report, you will find that that was indeed the
> case.  It is premature to comment before you read the report.

OK. Some time soon I'll read it. I find the different amount of "help"
they got still irritating.

Regards -- Markus