From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 107f24,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid107f24,public X-Google-Thread: f4fd2,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gidf4fd2,public X-Google-Thread: 10259a,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid10259a,public X-Google-Thread: 10dd18,fe63fd42b0d6db11 X-Google-Attributes: gid10dd18,public X-Google-Thread: 11440e,fe63fd42b0d6db11 X-Google-Attributes: gid11440e,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,ea8ea502d35ca2ce X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-05-05 19:10:04 PST Path: newsfeed.google.com!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!209.98.98.65.MISMATCH!hermes2.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newshub1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au!news1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au.POSTED!not-for-mail From: raj Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.functional,comp.lang.perl,comp.lang.ruby,comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Beginner's Language? Message-ID: References: <9cukad$nn68@news-dxb> <60c9ft0mvlkk9lvno6a67qnqomq7i621al@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 02:09:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.164.144.2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@optushome.com.au X-Trace: news1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au 989114963 203.164.144.2 (Sun, 06 May 2001 12:09:23 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 12:09:23 EST Organization: @Home Network Xref: newsfeed.google.com comp.lang.ada:7221 comp.lang.lisp:9731 comp.lang.smalltalk:9483 comp.lang.functional:5531 comp.lang.perl:2653 comp.lang.ruby:9217 comp.lang.python:32023 Date: 2001-05-06T02:09:23+00:00 List-Id: Education is different from vocational training. Vocational training is for plumbers and those who have to start-work-right-now. Education is about understanding the fundamentals and the theory that underlies the subject / the system / the "all". Education is meant for those capable of understanding the fundamentals and the theory that underlies the subject / the system / the "all". In this context, I stand by my previous statements: Lisp, Scheme, subsetted Ada, Smalltalk , Ruby , Python (and if approached judiciously, even Java and C++) can be used usefully as a language of discourse. Perl while admirable as a tool for sys admins and wannabe-hackers [ do you want your child to just become a sys-admin ? :-) ] is a linguistic mishmash that tries to be all things to all programmers and ends up becoming ( again to quote Larry Wall ) a "Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister". If you really want to teach children to use a multiparadigm language, try Oz / Mozart. It is has functional, object oriented, logic and constraint based, features and has concurrency built in. Confusing ? Yes ! But unlike Perl, Mozart was DESIGNED and did not grow by a process of uglification / accretion. Accretion is not necessarily bad. Just look at Lisp with it brilliant metaobject protocol, multiple dispatch and CLOS. But to contemplate teaching Perl or Basic to children......... Phaugh !