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From: rmartin@oma.com (Robert C. Martin)
Subject: Re: What is wrong with OO ?
Date: 1996/12/19
Date: 1996-12-19T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <rmartin-1912961207540001@vh1-026.wwa.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 32B758D7.61EF@deep.net


In article <32B758D7.61EF@deep.net>, tansel@deep.net wrote:
> 
> a) Software industry is in a crisis. 
> b) The application gap is still growing
> c) Every year abandoned software costs the world economy unmentionable
> billions of dollars.
> d) Even many so called successful projects Today are big money drains
> e) The approach we use for systems development influence a, b, c and d
> 
> How can we justify massive collapses of big systems with hundreds of
> millions of dollars down the drain with a cool face? If we don't call
> this a failure, what are we going to call? If it not waste, I would like
> to learn your definition of waste. And, dangerous, yes, because it
> creates a false sense of security once people get used to it.

The logical leap that you are making is that "procedural programming" is
responsible for points a-e.  I'd like to see some concrete evidence to
that effect.  The other logical leap you are implying is that OO corrects
points a-e.  Again, I'd like to see some empirical evidence.

Now, my belief is, (and my own experiences bear this out) that proper
(repeat *proper*) use of OO techniques can help to make large software
projects somewhat more maintainable, more flexible, more robust, and more 
reusable. (Did I get all the buzz words in there?)  Not that they didn't
have some of those traits before; its just that OO can enhance those
particular traits by some amount.  And it seems reasonable (although I
have only the most miniscule amount of real empirical evidence to 
support this) that enhancing these traits has an impact upon your points
a-e above.  But I have no proof as yet.  And, as far as I know, neither
does the industry at large.

On the other hand, there are costs associated with OO.  Done properly,
the structural complexity of applications increases, sometimes dramatically.
This complexity is what enhances the maintainability, flexibility, etc.  But
the cost is real.  I have experienced the payback.  I know that OO is
almost always worth the cost.  Indeed, when a large supply of reusable
components is assembled into a framework, the savings can be significant.
But the cost must still be paid.  (See my paper "ETS Case Study" available
from the freeware section of my website).

Another point is that there is massive confusion in the industry regarding
methodology.  Should you use Booch?  OMT?  UML? How about Shlaer/Mellor?  Some
of these methods are remarkably different from the others.  Which one yeilds
the best benefits.  IMHO, some of them work quite well, and some are 
exceedingly dangerous.  But who do you believe?

Thus, for the typical software manager, the costs of OO may overwhelm the
potential benefits.  If he makes the wrong choices with respect to methodology,
if he fails to adequately train his people in the proper use of OO, if he
expects to immediately reduce his costs, then for him OO will be more wasteful
and dangerous than procedural.

The manager who is careful to research the methods, who checks as much
empirical data as possible, who carefully runs trials without committing
his whole organization, who energetically trains his people, who makes
sure they are properly mentored during their first few projects; this manager
may reap the benefits of OO by producing systems that are easier to change, 
easier to maintain, and easier to reuse.  This manager may be able to build
up a stockpile of reusable software and arrange it in a framework that allows
applications to be developed in significantly less time than before.  But those
are very big IFs.

-- 
Robert C. Martin    | Design Consulting   | Training courses offered:
Object Mentor       | rmartin@oma.com     |   Object Oriented Design
14619 N Somerset Cr | Tel: (847) 918-1004 |   C++
Green Oaks IL 60048 | Fax: (847) 918-1023 | http://www.oma.com  

"One of the great commandments of science is:
    'Mistrust arguments from authority.'" -- Carl Sagan




  parent reply	other threads:[~1996-12-19  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 465+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1996-12-03  0:00 What is wrong with OO ? Ahmed
1996-12-03  0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-03  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Ahmed
1996-12-04  0:00     ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Jeff Miller
1996-12-06  0:00         ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-14  0:00         ` Chris
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Ahmed
1996-12-06  0:00         ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-03  0:00 ` Fred Parker
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Roger T.
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Joe Winchester
1996-12-05  0:00     ` Russell Corfman
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-04  0:00     ` Dr. Richard Botting
1996-12-05  0:00     ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-05  0:00       ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-06  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-06  0:00           ` David Bradley
1996-12-08  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-10  0:00             ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-11  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-11  0:00                 ` Matt Kennel
1996-12-12  0:00                 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-11  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-10  0:00             ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-11  0:00             ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-05  0:00       ` Marnix Klooster
1996-12-06  0:00       ` David B. Shapcott [C]
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Mukesh Prasad
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Carl Weidling
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Roger Vossler
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-10  0:00           ` Roger Vossler
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Don Harrison
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-11  0:00           `  Todd Knarr 
1996-12-11  0:00             ` Alan Meyer
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Ell
     [not found]             ` <58mubr$i <58p5ou$dkm@news3.digex.net>
1996-12-13  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-25  0:00                 ` Weiqi Gao
1996-12-25  0:00                   ` Matthew S. Whiting
1996-12-26  0:00                   ` Bob Jarvis
1996-12-26  0:00                     ` Arthur Gold
1996-12-26  0:00                   ` Mike Rubenstein
     [not found]             ` <32aefdb0..406273038@news.nstn.ca>
1996-12-14  0:00               ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1996-12-05  0:00     ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Ahmed
1996-12-06  0:00     ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Ralph Cook
1996-12-07  0:00         ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-09  0:00           ` Nigel Tzeng
1996-12-12  0:00             ` David Bradley
1996-12-20  0:00               ` Nigel Tzeng
     [not found]         ` <1996Dec7.151850.877@prim.demon.co.uk>
1996-12-08  0:00           ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-14  0:00             ` Kazimir Majorinc
1996-12-14  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-14  0:00               ` Jeff Miller
1996-12-16  0:00                 ` David Bradley
1996-12-15  0:00               ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-15  0:00                 ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-16  0:00                   ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-16  0:00                   ` Bob Kettig
1996-12-15  0:00                 ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-20  0:00               ` The Impossible Project: not so funny... (Was: what's wrong) Tim Ottinger
1996-12-20  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-21  0:00                 ` John DiCamillo
1996-12-22  0:00                 ` Guy Rixon
1996-12-22  0:00     ` Chip Richards
1996-12-04  0:00 ` What is wrong with OO ? Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Matthew Gream
1996-12-05  0:00   ` Tim Ottinger
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Nick Thurn
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Daniel Drasin
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-07  0:00     ` Nick Thurn
1996-12-14  0:00       ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-15  0:00         ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-15  0:00           ` Joseph W. Seda
1996-12-16  0:00           ` David Bradley
1996-12-19  0:00           ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-12-07  0:00     ` Steve Heller
1996-12-07  0:00       ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-09  0:00         ` Kenneth Mays
1996-12-14  0:00         ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-14  0:00           ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-18  0:00             ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-18  0:00               ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Caitlin
1996-12-15  0:00           ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-17  0:00             ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Ralph Cook
1996-12-19  0:00                 ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-19  0:00                 ` Robert C. Martin [this message]
1996-12-20  0:00                   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-21  0:00                     ` Michael Malak
1996-12-17  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-18  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-27  0:00                 ` clovis
1996-12-27  0:00                   ` Tore Lund
1996-12-28  0:00                     ` clovis
1996-12-28  0:00                       ` Tore Lund
1996-12-27  0:00                   ` Jacqueline U. Robertson
1996-12-27  0:00                     ` Tore Lund
1996-12-28  0:00                       ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-28  0:00                         ` Tore Lund
1996-12-31  0:00                         ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-31  0:00                           ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-31  0:00                           ` clovis
1996-12-31  0:00                             ` Neville Black
1996-12-31  0:00                             ` Tansel Ersavas
1997-01-01  0:00                             ` Tom Bushell
1997-01-10  0:00                             ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-10  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00                                 ` Assembler most efficient??? (was Re: What is wrong with OO ?) Richie Bielak
1997-01-11  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-11  0:00                                     ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-01-12  0:00                                       ` Joel VanLaven
1997-01-11  0:00                                     ` James S. Rogers
1997-01-13  0:00                                     ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-15  0:00                                 ` What is wrong with OO ? Richard Kenner
1997-01-11  0:00                               ` Randy A. Ynchausti
1997-01-12  0:00                               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-29  0:00                       ` clovis
1996-12-31  0:00                         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-31  0:00                           ` clovis
1997-01-10  0:00                           ` Bart Samwel
1996-12-31  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-01  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-12  0:00                       ` Corey Minyard
1997-01-14  0:00                         ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-13  0:00                       ` Nick Thurn
1996-12-28  0:00                     ` clovis
1996-12-30  0:00                       ` John (Max) Skaller
1996-12-29  0:00                         ` Rosimildo da Silva
1996-12-31  0:00                         ` Ian Joyner
1997-01-03  0:00                       ` markj
1997-01-03  0:00                         ` Natan
1996-12-28  0:00                   ` Stephen Pendleton
1996-12-31  0:00                     ` Edward de Jong
1996-12-31  0:00                       ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-31  0:00                       ` clovis
1997-01-01  0:00                       ` Tore Lund
1997-01-01  0:00                         ` Tore Lund
1996-12-19  0:00               ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-17  0:00             ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Ralph Cook
1996-12-18  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-24  0:00             ` Nigel Tzeng
1996-12-26  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-26  0:00                 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-16  0:00           ` Karen A. Morrissey
1996-12-16  0:00             ` Bob Kettig
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-17  0:00             ` David Bradley
1996-12-09  0:00       ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Steve Heller
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Snowball queries
1996-12-12  0:00         ` Samuel S. Shuster
1996-12-12  0:00           ` Dr. Richard Botting
1996-12-13  0:00           ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-16  0:00             ` Samuel S. Shuster
1996-12-16  0:00               ` Bob Kettig
1996-12-16  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-18  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-12-18  0:00                     ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-19  0:00                     ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1996-12-20  0:00                       ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-19  0:00                     ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-23  0:00                       ` David Bradley
1996-12-23  0:00                         ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1996-12-19  0:00                     ` David Bradley
1996-12-20  0:00                       ` Chris Brand
     [not found]                       ` <01bbee11$dcae8460$ca61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1996-12-23  0:00                         ` David Bradley
1996-12-19  0:00                   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-27  0:00                     ` clovis
1996-12-15  0:00     ` Damon Feldman
1996-12-06  0:00   ` David Bradley
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Steve Heller
1996-12-13  0:00   ` drush
1996-12-18  0:00   ` Matt Austern
1996-12-19  0:00     ` Risto Lankinen
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-26  0:00     ` What sells IT (was: What is wrong with OO ?) Cameron Laird
1996-12-20  0:00   ` What is wrong with OO ? Jon S Anthony
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-23  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-23  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-26  0:00   ` drush
1996-12-26  0:00   ` drush
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Myles Williams
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Ranjan Bagchi
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Myles Williams
1996-12-07  0:00 ` Kazimir Majorinc
1996-12-14  0:00   ` Chris
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-12-04  0:00 Ell
1996-12-04  0:00 Ell
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-05  0:00 Ell
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-05  0:00 Ell
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Brian Gridley
1996-12-05  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-06  0:00 Ell
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Thomas Gagne
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Bob Crispen
1996-12-14  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-10  0:00   ` Art Schwarz
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-07  0:00   ` Steve Heller
1996-12-06  0:00 Ell
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-06  0:00 ` H Brett Bolen
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Prashant Gupta
1996-12-14  0:00   ` Chris
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-09  0:00     ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-12  0:00     ` Frederick Sickert
1996-12-07  0:00 Ell
1996-12-07  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-10  0:00   ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-14  0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-16  0:00   ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-18  0:00       ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-19  0:00         ` Robert C. Martin
     [not found]   ` <01bbeb6f$e2220c40$371883cc@beast.advancedsw.com>
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-17  0:00       ` Roger T.
1996-12-18  0:00         ` Matt Kennel
     [not found]           ` <01bbed37$23deaa80$371883cc@beast.advancedsw.com>
1996-12-19  0:00             ` Matt Kennel
1996-12-19  0:00         ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-18  0:00 ` drush
1996-12-11  0:00 Ell
1996-12-11  0:00 Ell
1996-12-13  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-13  0:00   ` Ronald Servant
1996-12-13  0:00     ` matt
1996-12-13  0:00       ` Dan Stubbs
1996-12-18  0:00     ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-13  0:00 Ell
1996-12-13  0:00 ` drush
1996-12-15  0:00   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-16  0:00       ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-19  0:00     ` Samuel Mize
1996-12-14  0:00 Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-16  0:00 ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-22  0:00 ` Willy
1996-12-24  0:00   ` Fraser Wilson
1996-12-14  0:00 Ell
1996-12-15  0:00 Ell
1996-12-15  0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-15  0:00 Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-16  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-12-18  0:00 Ell
1996-12-18  0:00 ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-19  0:00 Ell
1996-12-24  0:00 Ell
1996-12-27  0:00 Ell
1996-12-28  0:00 Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-28  0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-31  0:00 Ell
1996-12-31  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-02  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-03  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-07  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-31  0:00 ` clovis
1996-12-31  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-01  0:00     ` Nick Thurn
1997-01-02  0:00 ` Ian Joyner
1997-01-02  0:00   ` David L. Shang
1996-12-31  0:00 Ell
1996-12-31  0:00 ` Nigel Tzeng
1996-12-31  0:00 ` Ian Joyner
1996-12-31  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-01  0:00     ` Tom Bushell
1997-01-02  0:00     ` Thaddeus L. Olczyk
1997-01-07  0:00   ` drush
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-02  0:00 ` Mike Anderson
1997-01-02  0:00   ` Dale Pontius
1997-01-02  0:00     ` Bill Hunter
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 ` Tim Ottinger
1997-01-08  0:00 ` Paul Eric Menchen
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-02  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-03  0:00     ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Matt Austern
1997-01-04  0:00   ` Valerie Torres
1997-01-06  0:00     ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-08  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00         ` William Clodius
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Jay Martin
1997-01-09  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Joe Buck
1997-01-11  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                   ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-12  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00                   ` Laurent Gasser
1997-01-15  0:00                     ` Jonas Nygren
1997-01-17  0:00                       ` Tom Bushell
1997-01-17  0:00                         ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-17  0:00                         ` Michael Malak
1997-01-17  0:00                           ` Kent Budge, sandia, 
1997-01-15  0:00                     ` Jay Martin
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Slavik Zorin
1997-01-11  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Thierry Goubier
1997-01-14  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-14  0:00             ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-16  0:00               ` Mark Woodruff
1997-01-17  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Simon Willcocks
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Michael Malak
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-12  0:00               ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00       ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-11  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00           ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-19  0:00             ` Jay Martin
1997-01-27  0:00               ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-30  0:00                 ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-20  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-01-21  0:00               ` John W. Sarkela
1997-01-23  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-23  0:00             ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-25  0:00               ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-26  0:00             ` Sean Case
1997-01-26  0:00               ` William Grosso
1997-01-28  0:00                 ` Paul Keister
1997-01-28  0:00               ` Dann Corbit
1997-01-12  0:00         ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-13  0:00           ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-12  0:00         ` Matt Telles
1997-01-15  0:00           ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-19  0:00             ` Matthew Heaney
1997-01-14  0:00         ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-16  0:00           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-16  0:00             ` Risto Lankinen
1997-01-16  0:00               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-16  0:00                 ` Risto Lankinen
1997-01-18  0:00                 ` Robert C. Martin
     [not found]           ` <01bc0269$3fd55b20$ca61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1997-02-10  0:00             ` richard
1997-02-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-10  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]                 ` <3303A993.759E@pratique.fr>
1997-02-21  0:00                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-02-21  0:00                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-02-22  0:00                     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-20  0:00         ` David Emery
     [not found]       ` <dewar.852772995@mer <dewar.852833957@merv>
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Simon Willcocks
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Marky Mark
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-12  0:00                   ` Josh Stern
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Martin ELLISON
1997-01-14  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-17  0:00     ` Lawrence G. Mayka
1997-01-19  0:00       ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-07  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-11  0:00     ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-21  0:00       ` rharlos*cybercomm.net
1997-02-10  0:00       ` richard
1997-02-10  0:00         ` Charles A. Jolley
1997-02-11  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-17  0:00             ` Sam Inala
1997-02-17  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-15  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-11  0:00         ` Vlastimil Adamovsky
1997-01-07  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-10  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-12  0:00     ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-10  0:00   ` Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-12  0:00     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-12  0:00   ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-11  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00   ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-13  0:00   ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-13  0:00   ` ak
1997-01-13  0:00   ` Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-13  0:00     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Ulrich Windl
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-26  0:00     ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Chris Bitmead
1997-01-08  0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-01-03  0:00 Ell
1997-01-03  0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-06  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1997-01-06  0:00   ` Steven Perryman
1997-01-08  0:00     ` Russ McClelland
1997-01-06  0:00 John Walker
1997-01-10  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-11  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-12  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-14  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-15  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-18  0:00 Ell
1997-02-11  0:00 Ell
1997-02-11  0:00 ` Matt McClellan
1997-02-11  0:00 ` John Brady
1997-02-12  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-12  0:00   ` David B. Shapcott [C]
1997-02-12  0:00   ` Ketil Z Malde
1997-02-12  0:00   ` Kevin J. Hopps
     [not found]     ` <33049C7C.41C6@wi.leidenuniv.nl>
1997-02-17  0:00       ` Kevin J. Hopps
1997-02-17  0:00         ` phil
1997-02-18  0:00     ` Simon Willcocks
1997-02-12  0:00   ` Hamilton, Robert Bryan       
1997-02-13  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-13  0:00     ` Hamilton, Robert Bryan       
1997-02-13  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-15  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-16  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-12  0:00 ` Russ McClelland
1997-02-12  0:00 ` Bob Jarvis
1997-02-13  0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen FOU.TD/DELAB
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