From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 109fba,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: fac41,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,b87849933931bc93 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public From: rmartin@oma.com (Robert C. Martin) Subject: Re: What is wrong with OO ? Date: 1996/12/14 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 204182755 references: <58aj6t$1ch@news3.digex.net> organization: Object Mentor Inc. newsgroups: comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.ada,comp.object,comp.software-eng Date: 1996-12-14T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In article <58aj6t$1ch@news3.digex.net>, ell@access2.digex.net (Ell) wrote: > Piercarlo Grandi (pcg@aber.ac.uk) wrote: > : "rmartin" == Robert C Martin writes: > : > Harry wrote > : >> In fact IMHO an OO team has no place for anyone who cannot do all > : >> three tasks. [Analysis, Design, and Implementation] > > : > Agreed, emphatically. > > It seems you all are not considering all factors here. For instance, > because someone is a good Java programmer does not necessarily mean they > are good at working with users to formulate analysis, or that they have > good architectural skills for medium sized or large projects. And vice > versa. If you define an analyst as someone who deals with users and defines requirements, then I agree with you. However, such an analyst does not produce high level partitionings of software structure. He is unconcerned with the technology of OO. Rather he produces a cogent set of requirements for systems that will solve users problems. On the other hand, if you define an analyst as the person who interprets a set of requirements and begins to divine the structure of the software that will implement those requirements, then I disagree with you. For that talent, the ability to translate a requirement to a software structure, is the same for all levels of software design. Granted, the higher levels require more experience and talent to resolve, than the lower levels. But the intrinsic operation of translating requirements into software structure is the same. IMHO. > : Architecture, as you have so many times argued, is extremely important, > : and the implementor that is not guided by sound architectural > : principles, by close interaction with analisys and design, is not going > : to do a nice implementation. > > If you are speaking of Martin, he has only accepted that project coders > should be required to follow architecture within the last 6 months > (partially at my urging). WRT analysis he has never to my knowledge > accepted that an overall analysis should be done at the outset of a > project and that it should lead the creation of project architecture. Elliott, I have asked you many times before, and I will ask you once again, not to put words in my mouth. I have no idea where you got the 6 month number from. And believe me, the only thing your urging has given me is sore fingers from the immense amount of typing that I have had to do to respond to all your misquotes and misuses of my words. No code should be produced without an architecture and a design to direct it. However, no architecture or design should be produced without code to verify that it is correct. At frequent intervals, designers should commit their (probably unfinished) designs to code to verify that they can be implemented and that they work. Those designs can then be built upon, improved, and extended. The process is iterative and evolutionary. -- Robert C. Martin | Design Consulting | Training courses offered: Object Mentor | rmartin@oma.com | Object Oriented Design 14619 N Somerset Cr | Tel: (847) 918-1004 | C++ Green Oaks IL 60048 | Fax: (847) 918-1023 | http://www.oma.com "One of the great commandments of science is: 'Mistrust arguments from authority.'" -- Carl Sagan