From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!newsfeed.xs3.de!news.jacob-sparre.dk!franka.jacob-sparre.dk!pnx.dk!.POSTED.rrsoftware.com!not-for-mail From: "Randy Brukardt" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Ada in command / control systems Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 16:02:02 -0600 Organization: JSA Research & Innovation Message-ID: References: <2199b15b-d704-403f-a6c4-00fab29792d5@googlegroups.com> <72738cc8-3f65-4cc1-8c61-b1166cb5e3c2@googlegroups.com> <9807ec3a-4c34-4641-acfa-e9cf22de95ce@googlegroups.com> <520809e3-a705-4b10-8b54-6d67c33158a6@googlegroups.com> Injection-Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 22:02:03 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: franka.jacob-sparre.dk; posting-host="rrsoftware.com:24.196.82.226"; logging-data="18414"; mail-complaints-to="news@jacob-sparre.dk" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.7246 Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:55802 Date: 2019-03-06T16:02:02-06:00 List-Id: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" wrote in message news:q5m7bc$1mf2$1@gioia.aioe.org... > On 2019-03-05 10:51, Maciej Sobczak wrote: >>>> Managers cannot see what programmers do. >>> >>> Need they to? I think the established view is that [mis]management is a >>> discipline of its own. A manager can manage a diary farm company or a >>> software house just same... >> >> I think that the two statements above explain a lot. If managers have no >> idea what we do and we have no idea what they do, how can we expect >> software engineering to be a mature discipline? :-D > > It is not about discipline, it is about the maximum size of a > project/company/organization when things stop working no matter what. This is an interesting point. When an organization gets big enough to need managers, my contention is that it is already too big. For most human endevours, there is a size of group beyond which very little progress will occur regardless of numbers. Because once you start adding layers of management, interactions become fossilized and incremental progress goes down. Brooks law applies to pretty much everything! Clearly there are some projects that need to be large (infrastructure like roads and utilities come to mind), but the more that can be minimized the better. Otherwise, smaller is almost always better. Small organizations also have the advantage that they can be allowed to fail, so the true power of capitalism actually can bear on them. People aren't trapped in terrible jobs because there are plenty of other similar places that they could work. And so on. And in such cases, fancy "engineering" isn't necessary. Simply use Ada to get your stuff right in the first place; no need to impress managers or other people that aren't adding anything to society. Randy.