From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,752a3fab42ce9726,start X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Answer of Request to AdaCore on licensing Status of GtkAda 2.4.0 From: M E Leypold Date: 21 Jul 2006 21:18:27 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Some cool user agent (SCUG) NNTP-Posting-Host: 88.72.197.50 X-Trace: news.arcor-ip.de 1153509061 88.72.197.50 (21 Jul 2006 21:11:01 +0200) X-Complaints-To: abuse@arcor-ip.de Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!news4.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.arcor-ip.de!news.arcor-ip.de!not-for-mail Xref: g2news2.google.com comp.lang.ada:5877 Date: 2006-07-21T21:18:27+02:00 List-Id: Dear All, To make it short: A member of the sales departement of AdaCore has written a mail to me, which at least tries to stipulate that even the older (pre 2005 versions) of GtkAda can only be used under the GPL. Which can only mean: The linking exception has been revoked, that happening at a unspecified time in the deep past and silently so. The Details: ============ Distribution and Licensing History of GtkAda -------------------------------------------- The distribution history of GtkAda as far as I can reconstruct it, has been the following: - GtkAda 1.x and GtkAda 2.x up to and including version 2.4.0 have been distributed from libre.act-europe.fr with a GMGPL license notice at the web site and a not quite so clear license notice in COPYING and README and quite clear GMGPL notices in most (almost all) of the file headers. - GtkAda 2.2.1 is up to this day linked from Freshmeat with a GMGPL license notice and is actually served from libre2.adacore.com. - Newer versions of GtkAda are distributed from libre2.adacore.com by two protocols: CVS and http(s). The web site does not carry a license notice. - Per HTTP GtkAda 2.4.0 is distributed standalone and carries the same notices in the files as the "other" version from old libre. GtkAda 2.8.0 is distributed by HTTP as part of Gnat-GPL and is as such included in the GPL license notice of the GNAT-GPL distro. The header files have been supposedly stripped of the linking exception (I don't remember wether I checked that personally or wether I'm relying in other peoples contribution in this single item: If it makes a difference, please check yourself). - Both versions 2.4.0 and 2.8.0 and all/most of the older versions are distributed by CVS with the license notices identical to the pre 2005 status when everything was under GMGPL. - AdaCore has answered requests by the Debian maintainer, that all Software distributed from libre2 is under pure GPL. Despite the fact that they are using the word "downloaded" in answers to my own requests rather often, I think it is quite clear that the CVS versions are supposed to be included in that: The CVS-Server is located at libre.adacore.com. Clarification Requests to AdaCore ---------------------------------- Since the AdaCore statements on the licensing terms have always been somewhat fuzzy in the recent past (see the absence oif notices instead of clear license notices at the sit) and, interestingly enough, the license notices in the (supposedly) GMGPL and the (supposedly) GPL versions have been the same, I've been trying to elicit a statement from AdaCore on this sameness, on the licensing history of GtkAda, basically to establish - when the license switch actually happened, - how GPL source can be distinguished from the GMGPL source in an effort to establish a last GMGPL baseline from which (depending on the prevailing needs) either - existing projects can be maintained with that version - existing projects can be migrated to pure GPL in a controlled way. - a GMGPL maintenance branch can be forked as ultimate measure when necessary. I've to say that mail exchange with AdaCore was rather slow and painful. There seemed to be definite reluctance to answer any question in a meaningful way at all and even after narrowing everything (preliminary) down to the question of the present licensing status of GtkAda 2.4.0 AS OBTAINED FROM LIBRE.ACT-EUROPE in the first quarter of 2005, it took a time to get a definite statement. The Result: "Old" GtkAda is also GPL ------------------------------------ What I got, finally, was the following statement: "Let me be clearer, the only assumption you can make today for GtkAda downloaded from the libre site in the past is that it is licensed under the GPL." Apart from the weasel wording like "assumptions" (which still in my eyes tries to avoid to talk about the actual rights of the licensee / person in possession of the code and tries to introduce the notion of assumptions that could be made, as if AdaCore didn't exactly know which their licensing terms are or were), apart from that I think that is quite clear: "Don't use any GtkAda version with a linking exception". Not now and not in the last year. :-( Opinion ------- In the past a number of people here have been trying to portrait AdaCore as hardcore free software activists that only want to free the user from evil lesser licenses. I've always thought that this is utter BS and that AdaCore has indeed changed their direction quite a bit purely out of business considerations (and you're free to draw your own conclusion on why such a course change (and in rather clandestine a way) is necessary if the business model is to sell support for free software). But retrospectively revoking licenses should not part of any concept of freedom and I'm hard pressed to imagine such a scenario. I've gone as far as stating that it is this practice which will dissolve any meaning of the license notices in the distributions and any concept of possesion of a certain distribution under a non revokable license. I'll repeat it. You'd have to check for changes in the licenses with the distributor every week. This (the practice of bad license documentation and the (rather implicit) retrospective revokation, not the GPL per se) damages free software and just now it's AdaCore doing the deed. Of course if it comes to talking to potential customers, it's all COTS from FLOSS and openness. In my book openness starts with creating clearly understandable, fixed, licensing situations which I can file and forget after having read them once. AdaCore fails to to that in a number of ways (license notices on sites, license notices in distro, non contradictory notices in alignement with the supposed license). Congratulations to all people still distributing their GtkAda applications in binary form based on GMGPL sources. Let me repeat: "(...) the only assumption you can make today from the libre site in the past is that it is licensed under the GPL (...)" You got pwned. All your base belong to us. Regards -- Markus