From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,24ac770ebf312b7a X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!proxad.net!proxad.net!62.253.162.218.MISMATCH!news-in.ntli.net!newsrout1-win.ntli.net!ntli.net!newspeer1-win.ntli.net!newsfe5-win.ntli.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail From: "Dr. Adrian Wrigley" Subject: Re: Next Ada compiler for Debian: the votes so far User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2 (This is not a psychotic episode. It's a cleansing moment of clarity.) Message-Id: Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada References: <87u0gjd8kj.fsf@ludovic-brenta.org> <87zmq7zi2g.fsf@ludovic-brenta.org> <1127373639.533145.315510@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1127389845.587230.25850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <874q8dvu5p.fsf@ludovic-brenta.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:54:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.4.127.115 X-Complaints-To: http://www.ntlworld.com/netreport X-Trace: newsfe5-win.ntli.net 1127476476 80.4.127.115 (Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:54:36 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:54:36 BST Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:5056 Date: 2005-09-23T11:54:36+00:00 List-Id: On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:23:14 +0200, Ludovic Brenta wrote: > Ada 95 will remain just as useful as it is today. It will not become > less powerful, it will not lose features, and it will not suddenly > cause your software not to work anymore. OK. It won't suddenly lose capability, rather it will suffer from "bit rot" and obsolescence. Ten years from now it will not be used. > The only thing that can make GNAT 3.15p obsolete and break your > software is a policy decision by the maintainers of the platforms > where your software runs. Upgrades to the platform present a threat. For example, moving to x86-64 with 64-bit pointers. Or whatever comes next. And major upgrades to C libraries, other compilers etc. can cause maintenance problems too. My argument is that 3.15p is *obsolescent*, not *obsolete*. > But what is the platform that you are targetting today, and that > concerns you? If you distribute proprietary software, you can always > make your own platform, or distribute GNAT 3.15p binaries with your > software. I am targeting x86 Linux. I use 3.15p and GLADE (and other Ada libraries) There are bugs in both of these tools which bring me problems. My next machine will be x86-64 to get increased addressing and speed. I should probably go to a dual Opteron, GNAT GPL 2005, PolyORB etc. but the time, cost and upheaval will be significant. I want to be confident there will be real benefits and the tools will all work properly together. I am not distributing my software at present, so I don't have a direct interest in the choice of Debian compiler. I run Debian and Red Hat at present, but I'm considering moving to all Debian. In future, I may want to distribute Ada binaries or source, and don't want the opportunity to be obscured by changes in licensing of the Ada libraries. What I'd like to see is a new version of GNAT and various libraries to become predominant. A version suitable for all purposes. A version with full Ada 2005 support, when possible. A version for all the main Debian platforms. (I also run an Debian ARM system sometimes). With robust Annex E and ASIS support. I fear this this will not happen. And I don't think ACT is minded to make it happen. But I may be mistaken. > >> (and the situation is worse with things like GLADE, and GtkAda, the >> GMGPL versions of which will become obsolescent) > > This is speculation; the GMGPL version is in AdaCore's public CVS > repository and nothing indicates that their license will change, or that > they will notbe maintained anymore. Perhaps I have been barking up the wrong tree, but it was commented earlied in this group that the 'exception' clauses for GtkAda and one or two other libraries had been removed. I haven't seen this myself. I had got the impression, however, that GLADE wasn't being maintained. Checking the AdaCore CVS suggests I am wrong on this. But activity is moving to PolyORB, which doesn't seem ready for mission-critical Annex E use. Am am still confused about ASIS and GLADE licensing. On 15 Sep 2005 01:44:16 -0700, Ludovic Brenta wrote: > Please take into account that recent versions of ASIS and GLADE are > only available under GPL, not GMGPL. The same is true for AWS, > GtkAda, XML/Ada etc. but is less of a concern because these libraries > are not tightly coupled with the compiler. but as you say, the versions in AdaCore public CVS *are* GMGPL (I checked this). Was your earlier post a mistake? Or is it more complicated than that? I had been particularly concerned earlier, since the COPYING file has no exception, but as was pointed out, the exception need not be mentioned there, and the concern was misplaced. Maybe as time progresses, we'll see that AdaCore will support a new "unversal" GNAT and libraries all under GMGPL type licensing. Let's hope so. -- Adrian