From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,24ac770ebf312b7a X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news3.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!news-out.ntli.net!newsrout1-gui.ntli.net!ntli.net!newspeer1-win.ntli.net!newsfe4-win.ntli.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail From: "Dr. Adrian Wrigley" Subject: Re: Next Ada compiler for Debian: the votes so far User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2 (This is not a psychotic episode. It's a cleansing moment of clarity.) Message-Id: Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada References: <87u0gjd8kj.fsf@ludovic-brenta.org> <87zmq7zi2g.fsf@ludovic-brenta.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:08:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.4.127.115 X-Complaints-To: http://www.ntlworld.com/netreport X-Trace: newsfe4-win.ntli.net 1127261287 80.4.127.115 (Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:08:07 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:08:07 BST Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:4970 Date: 2005-09-21T00:08:07+00:00 List-Id: On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:53:59 +0200, Ludovic Brenta wrote: I think the following aren't in your list: The FUD argument: by having an unusal and restrictive licence for the users' executables, people will be forced to read and understand the detail of the licenses, consult lawyers, perhaps change their distribution plans, now or in the future. The GMGPL versions are simple, creating no fear, uncertainty or doubt over their use. Choosing the GNAT GPL 2005 incurs extra risk, cost and effort to comply. The damage to the GMGPL versions: if distributions and users move to the GNAT GPL 2005 version, it becomes less likely that the GMGPL versions will be adequately maintained and upgraded. This is likely to be a major disbenefit for those needing GMGPL versions. Supports ACT policy of withdrawing Ada technologies from free use: makes it more likely that GtkAda, GLADE, AWS etc will be completely unavailable in fully free (GMGPL) form, pushing the costs of using Ada well beyond those of comparable technologies. ($$$$$, instead of <$$) It's not what users expect: users of free compilers expect to be able to use their compiled code in any manner they see fit. This is true of all of the mainstream languages (C, C++, etc). The surprise aspect focuses attention away from the benefits of Ada, and may also result in accidental violations of the licence. -- I think it is likely that the situation will worsen rapidly over the next few years, with the effect that there will be *no* fully free Ada 2005 compiler and *no* fully free GtkAda, GLADE, AWS, ASIS, Florist either. The benefit (if any) to ACT will be negligable, but the disbenefit to Ada and the user community will be significant. Already it is a challenge to obtain a complete suite of tools that isn't seriously obsolescent :( A quick check of Gtk and other Gtk bindings find C++, C#, etc all are fully free (so just using them places no additional restrictions on the executable). Ceasing development of the unrestricted Ada bindings just puts Ada further out on a limb as a weird, impracticable or expensive option. People don't expect free language interface to a free (LGPL) library to result in legally encumbered binaries. How much would you have to pay ACT to make regular public releases of GNAT with libraries under the GMGPL style licensing? Even just every two years would be sufficient. Logically, it needn't cost more than the cost of the work involved plus profit margin plus any expected loss of profit by it being made available. Couldn't a sponsor be found? The DoD invested huge amounts in the past. Sponsoring fully free releases of GNAT would be one of the best ways of retaining and enhancing the value of their investment. Unfortunately, the issue will be constantly with us until current, fully free versions of the software are available. I hope this will not be too long. -- Adrian