From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fac41,9a0ff0bffdf63657 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,9a0ff0bffdf63657 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,4b06f8f15f01a568 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,9a0ff0bffdf63657 X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public From: Ell Subject: Re: Software landmines (loops) Date: 1998/09/18 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 392234722 References: <6rf59b$2ud$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6sjj7n$3rr$1@hirame.wwa.com> <35f055a5.1431187@news.erols.com> <6sjnlu$83l$1@hirame.wwa.com> <6skfs7$2s6$1@hirame.wwa.com> <35F252DD.5187538@earthlink.net> <6t4dge$t8u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t5mtp$4ho$1@news.indigo.ie> <35FFE58C.5727@ibm.net> <6ts13n$v31$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@digex.net X-Trace: newsreader.digex.net 906078357 205.197.245.196 (Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:25:57 EDT) Organization: The Universe User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980226 (UNIX) (SunOS/4.1.4 (sun4m)) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:25:57 EDT Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel,comp.object,comp.software-eng,comp.lang.ada Date: 1998-09-18T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: dewarr@my-dejanews.com wrote: > Biju Thomas wrote: >> >> Reminds me of what Dijkstra told about the effect of COBOL and BASIC on >> minds: >> >> "The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be >> regarded as a criminal offense." >> >> "It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to >> students that have had prior exposure to BASIC; as potential >> programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration" >I would be willing to be that EWD simply does not know COBOL, >or that if he does know it, he knows some ancient version >that bears no relationship to modern COBOL. In fact this >must be the case, or he would not make a patently absurd >statement like this. COBOL, modern day at least, is great for teaching modularity, hierarchically layered architecture, procedures to enhance loose coupling and high cohesion, and procedure calls to avoid pasta. Myself and many others learned BASIC and were able to develop good programming styles despite that. And then with Darmouth and True BASIC, 'goto' was discouraged and a modular, loosely coupled, and highly cohesive routine call style was supported and encouraged. While I really like Dijkstra's comment that *abstraction* is the first thing he thinks of when the term "structured programming" is mentioned*, his above statements are typical craftite, elitist comments. *[Art of Literate Programmimg, CLSC, D. Knuth, pg 72] He is the supposed all-knowing master craftsman who looks down his nose at the work and practices of any but his own and that of a small circle of cohorts. Elliott -- :=***=: VOTE NO TO MODERATION! ALL IDEAS SHOULD BE CRITICIZABLE! :=***=: MODERATORS SHOULD NOT HAVE LIFETIME TERMS! :=***=: Objective * Pre-code Modelling * Holistic :=***=: Hallmarks of the best SW Engineering Check out SW Modeller vs SW Craftite Central : www.access.digex.net/~ell Copyright 1998 Elliott. exclusive of others' writing. may be copied without permission only in the comp.* usenet and bitnet groups.